Khaan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Apr 26, 2005 - 10:00 |
 
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Having played most of my games using my ranked gobo team I've come to realize the only strategy that works consistantly is the 'slippery soap' play. The beauty of this play is how it can be applied both to offense and defense.
On offense the goblin ballboy rubs against the soap and then runs like mad straight forward, hoping for the best.
On defense we chuck the soap at the oppposition ballboy, and if that doesnt knock him out we hope he slips on it. |
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AbsoluteZero
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Apr 26, 2005 - 10:23 |
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Haha. What these guys aren't telling you, is the real reason we run 'soft defenses'
These so called open flank defenses are ruses. They are to give you easy touchdowns.
You score in two turns? Big deal, gives me 6 turns, plus a lot more pounding chances to crush what's left
standing in your teams.
You score in one? better... one more turn of pounding 
See... Its almost impossible to stop a drive by a good coach. So let him score. Take the time on your own
2nd half is when u ditch the soft defense, or only when there are only a few turns left |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 26, 2005 - 13:12 |
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i dunno but this setup is rather good vs the fleet of foot!!
| Code: |
OOOO|OOXXXOO|OOOO
OOXO|OXOOOXO|OXOO
OXOO|OOOXOOO|OOXO
OOOO|OOOOOOO|OOOO
OOOO|OOOXOOO|OOOO |
| Code: |
OOOO|OOXXXOO|OOOO
OOOO|OOOOOOO|OOOO
OOXO|OXOOOXO|OXOO
OXOO|OOOXOOO|OOXO
OOOO|OOOOOOO|OOOO
OOOO|OOOXOOO|OOOO
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especially with orcs or strong opposition  |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 26, 2005 - 13:30 |
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I suppose there is one thing I should add about 'open-flank' defences; there is a huge difference between leaving your wide-zones entirely unoccupied (or guarded by one player who will be blitzed), and leaving a small gap, forcing the receivers to form up against the side-lines, with your players positioned to trap them there the following turn. Frenzy, Guard and Str 4 players make this kind of defence much easier.
The tactic of allowing the easy two-turn score is a valid one - many times I have successfully scored when kicking, taking four turns to do so, only to concede before half-time, leaving me in much the same position I would have been had I let them score first, but in much worse shape having taken a beating in the process (my defensive style tends to be hard on my players). Nevertheless, I'm too stubborn to give anything away! I think the most important thing when defending is never, ever, give up! I think the main difference between the good coaches and the mediocre ones is exactly that - I have spectated games were things have gone wrong for a coach, but there was still a way back into the game if they had taken the chance open to them (say, a pushback to setup a 3+ dodge for a 1d blitz on the ball carrier). Too often, they give up and start blocking and fouling indiscriminately instead.
Back to the topic, I think the open-flanked defence can work, but too often I've seen it employed poorly. Unless you know exactly what you're doing, it's probably better not to do it. This really applies when playing against the quicker teams, as I previously mentioned. Khemri are hardly likely to send runners into your backfield to wait for the pass.
I am experimenting with the idea of asymmetric defences at the moment - leaving one flank weak or open to invite the other team there, but kicking to the opposite corner, forcing them to move the ball a long way, which is when the mistakes start happening. I've posted one possible example on the User Guide - I'd be interested to see if anyone would try it or something along the same lines and send me feedback. |
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Last edited by Colin on %b %26, %2005 - %13:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 26, 2005 - 13:35 |
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| brownrob wrote: | i dunno but this setup is rather good vs the fleet of foot!!
| Code: |
OOOO|OOXXXOO|OOOO
OOXO|OXOOOXO|OXOO
OXOO|OOOXOOO|OOXO
OOOO|OOOOOOO|OOOO
OOOO|OOOXOOO|OOOO |
| Code: |
OOOO|OOXXXOO|OOOO
OOOO|OOOOOOO|OOOO
OOXO|OXOOOXO|OXOO
OXOO|OOOXOOO|OOXO
OOOO|OOOOOOO|OOOO
OOOO|OOOXOOO|OOOO
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especially with orcs or strong opposition |
You mentioned this one to me before, Rob - if I was an Elf coach faced with that, I'd say the weak point is the foremost player on the wing. Taken him down, and it's a wide-open hole into the backfield. Alternatively, the second-line defenders in the middle would be my blitz target. Either way, I'd only need a pushback. |
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razta
Joined: Aug 12, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 26, 2005 - 13:54 |
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I always go for a "open flank" strat with bashy teams. trying to maim and foul as much as possible on the 1 turn i have until i force a TD then do a 6 turn drive with bashing followed up with a 8 turn slow drive when i just walk up and stall until turn 8. works like a charm sometimes specialy vs agile teams. |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Apr 26, 2005 - 14:15 |
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Boy, Razta sounds like a fun opponent to play against:P |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 26, 2005 - 14:17 |
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| razta wrote: | | I always go for a "open flank" strat with bashy teams. trying to maim and foul as much as possible on the 1 turn i have until i force a TD then do a 6 turn drive with bashing followed up with a 8 turn slow drive when i just walk up and stall until turn 8. works like a charm sometimes specialy vs agile teams. |
I couldn't help but look through your match record razta - I cherrypicked this match as one were this strategy failed for you in disastrous fashion, while it worked for your faster opponent:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=527573
The first drive was most telling - your opponent not only had access to your backfield, but could even afford a couple of handling errors and still scored in T5. Obviously, not all your matches go like this, but it shows the hit-and-miss nature of this defence. |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 26, 2005 - 18:40 |
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| Colin wrote: | | Back to the topic, I think the open-flanked defence can work, but too often I've seen it employed poorly. Unless you know exactly what you're doing, it's probably better not to do it. |
that, i think i can fullly agree with you =)
so i'll say that either the "open widezone" or "only one guy defending each flank" strategies are good, if you know what you are doing and why, and that it is probably safer for beginners to force their opponent to run through the middle. |
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Shepherd
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 26, 2005 - 18:59 |
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I'd never tried the open flanked defense before, but after reading this thread I sort of gave it a shot with my Undead vs. high elves, a wight and ghoul hanging back by the offside boundaries and just a lone zombie wandering around the front of the flank. Worked a charm, with the mummies stumbling back to assist and the zombies tying up everyone they could on the front line. I was helped by some poor (but not supernaturally poor) rolling by my opponent. |
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Shepherd
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
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Apr 26, 2005 - 19:06 |
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| Colin wrote: | | I couldn't help but look through your match record razta - I cherrypicked this match as one were this strategy failed for you in disastrous fashion, while it worked for your faster opponent... |
Yeah, but 2 KOs on the first two blocks of the game, not to mention a RIP (apothed, but still), AND another KO at the beginning of the opponent's second turn, will tend to screw you no matter what strategy you're using. I can't see how a standard setup would have been better were the same number of players knocked out. |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 26, 2005 - 19:14 |
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In my opinion, anyone who can play the flanks well will always win a game of BB. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 26, 2005 - 19:55 |
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Am I the only guy who ever looks at the possibilty of getting in to the offense's backfield? Against a lot of "Tough" opponents, I've angled the kick towards the back, and blitzed in from the wide zones before he can set his cage properly. Let him bash my LOS, I've got the ballcarrier. Even if I don't get the ball right away, I've got him reacting to me, and (in most cases where I try this tactic), either have a strong blitzer vs a thrower (Humans vs Skaven) or my whole team is faster, and moving the "Area of play" into his zone, means I can out-number him. |
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origami
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 26, 2005 - 20:59 |
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| Macavity wrote: | | Let him bash my LOS, I've got the ballcarrier. Even if I don't get the ball right away, I've got him reacting to me, and (in most cases where I try this tactic), either have a strong blitzer vs a thrower (Humans vs Skaven) or my whole team is faster, and moving the "Area of play" into his zone, means I can out-number him. |
This is especially important when playing an agile team against a strength team. Many coaches of strength teams don't realize the sheer amount of speed that some of the agility teams have. They leave their backfields pretty much open, while stacking the line to get in as many blocks as possible. This lets a fast team get several speedy players in position to put pressure on the ball carrier. Also, a blitz or a single failed pickup/pass at that point will likely result in a touchdown by the agility team. Kick is invaluable in making this happen.
Also, the agility team really needs to prevent the strength team from forming a cage. Once the ball carrier is safely in the center of a bunch of guarders, you aren't going to knock the ball free without a lot of luck.
From the discussion so far, it seems as though open flank defenses work best when employed against agility teams by the low strength teams that have difficulty in taking advantage of blitzes or ball handling errors - necro and undead are good examples of this. When playing with an agility team, it seems that using an open flank defense would just give up too many opportunities to take advantage of your opponent's errors/bad luck. When playing as a strength team, leaving the flanks open prevents you from using the setups that will force the agility team to make lots of dodges or single die blocks. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 26, 2005 - 21:11 |
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I was just going to add that the one primary situation in which I've been schooled by open flanks is against fast, reasonably developed teams.
A couple of passblockers and sidesteppers and they can easily swarm you, whichever side you take. It makes it easy to advance part way to the goal, but you get swarmed after that one easy turn. Additionally, from a central location, the defender _might_ have an easier route to your backfield, depending upon how much the offense commits to holding the sideline.
I don't think it's generally good advice but occasionally useful, particularly for fast teams. |
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