FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: May 04, 2004

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 14:57

Banning is of course a valid option for tournament keepers as it's their tournament. You can't really blame them for making rules, as long as players aren't punished for crimes that weren't crimes at the time.

Then again team retiring could easily be argued to be valid tactics as this is an official Ranked tournament and a Ranked team could well be too shamed after such a match to play on in that div...

The transferring to U part sounds weird and lame, and I don't think it should really be thought about too much.

It was said that retiring the team is not a viable option really because the coach is likely to retire his team afterwards anyway - I don't think it matters that much, yeah it still leaves those bashed out players conceding but then at least we avoid the "grossly unfair concessions" - if a team really has no reason to go on they can and should retire Even in tournaments Even if that makes the grossly better team better!

This is BLOODbowl, let the Blood rule and overkill count. Wink

(haha I got to use the BLOOD -phrase Mr. Green

)

Melmoth

Joined: May 05, 2004

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 15:15

I dont like to see coaches concede in the fumbbl cup cause that should be something very special. But anyway. its part of the game and as long as the client(or the board rules) has the option to do so u can never ban a coach for using his rights.

MrMojo

Joined: Apr 17, 2004

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 15:35

No, not to ban from fumbbl, just from future cups. That's only fair. They can use their right, if they want to, but it doesn't mean that they have the right to enter fumbbl cups ever again, to possibly concede another time.

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Webbe

Joined: Aug 13, 2003

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 15:41

Hey, we only mean ban from tournament, not from site. I think it's prefectly apropriate to ban a conceding coach from future cups (or the next one).

Pmg

Joined: Nov 24, 2003

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 16:20

Judge: Excuse me Mr. Karpov you should not concede this world cup game, because this is the most important tournament in the world. You should keep playing even tough you lost your Queen so you can, well, eat more of his paws. So even tough it is your birthday and you would rather go have dinner earlier, please stay here and entertain us or else we could thing about banning you from future events.

Karpov: Eat me!

JanMattys

Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 16:35

Pmg, birthday dinner is a good excuse.

Problem here is not YOUR behaviour in this particular situation, but the fact that Malthor is just walking to the final facing not good enough opposition. And I am not talking about TR... we all know Falcons can win almost any game vs almost everyone...

I mean that everytime the opponent feels like he stands no chance, he just leaves the pitch.
That's lame, not your decision to attend to more important RL matters.

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Burnalot

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 17:01

Why suffer for more time when you just don't have the slightest chance and have a bad time playing versus a totally superior team? There are plenty of better ways to kill your time, like doing something that you enjoy or at least something that doesn't piss you off.

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JanMattys

Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 17:13

Cause you asked to play the most important tournament on this site. Your partecipation kept out of it another coach. Many members of this community care about results. Many members of this community spectate games. All other coaches partecipating deserve to face opponents who's path has not been easy.

Again... it's not against the rules, but it's hell OUT of the spirit of the whole tournament.
So I am all for implementing some RULE that will make you pay if you go against the spirit of the whole thing.

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Mithrilpoint

Joined: Mar 16, 2004

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 17:25

I couldn´t disagree more JanMattys. The coaches have earned their spot so therefor they have the right do with it as they please. They are all in the tournament to win and when they assess their chances to do so as nil..then the natural thing is to concede - especially if they are not having fun.

True, the spectators might not see the exhilarating game the hoped for. But the spectators have no right to demand this or that from the coaches. The future opponents have no right to demand any number of fouls, crowdpushes or the like from a coach who is losing. And finally nobody (except the admins) has the right to demand that you "fight to the bitter end" - it´s all about personal preferences.

M

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tza

Joined: Aug 25, 2004

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 17:38

I disagree Mithril - they have earned the spot, yes - but if your not planning on using this to the fullest, then you haven't earned nothing but shit imo.

You don't enter the FC only to just back out because you might risk getting a player killed.

Its all or nothing!

Firesky

Joined: Apr 06, 2005

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 17:54

tza wrote:

I disagree Mithril - they have earned the spot, yes - but if your not planning on using this to the fullest, then you haven't earned nothing but shit imo.

You don't enter the FC only to just back out because you might risk getting a player killed.

Its all or nothing!

It is never all or nothing cause you maybe want to keep your team and there are some possibilities why a coach concedes...

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DreadClaw

Joined: Nov 17, 2003

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 17:56

Don't concede. don't do it now, don't do it later. fight to the finish.

I gave malthor a fight, not a pansy run for my panties help they're coming sissy match... And by god next FC I'll be back with another basher team!

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JanMattys

Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 17:57

Mithrilpoint wrote:

I couldn´t disagree more JanMattys. The coaches have earned their spot so therefor they have the right do with it as they please. They are all in the tournament to win and when they assess their chances to do so as nil..then the natural thing is to concede - especially if they are not having fun.

True, the spectators might not see the exhilarating game the hoped for. But the spectators have no right to demand this or that from the coaches. The future opponents have no right to demand any number of fouls, crowdpushes or the like from a coach who is losing. And finally nobody (except the admins) has the right to demand that you "fight to the bitter end" - it´s all about personal preferences.

M

Note: in my previous post I didn't write "right" anywhere

But this isn't the point.

I try to think about the Fumbbl Cup as a sort of olympics games or the Soccer World cup (or some major sport event as well).
I can't imagine a team in such a competition to leave "just cuz it's not funny anymore". I know it's not against the rule, but it's about fluff. The Fumbbl Cup is not a way to get a Healing Potion or a big raise in CR... it's more. It's a major tournament. It's a way to face the best, with your best.
It's a place where a team (even a BB team) can find pride and courage to fight against all odds to victory.

It's a Major Tournament. The Fumbbl Cup is the equivalent of the Blood Bowl... You can't reduce it to a "I am not having fun, I concede and retire the team. Who cares? I'll make a new one".

At least this is my point of view. And you can't convince me I'm wrong.
It's all about different perception. You look at it as a tournament in ranked. Just that. I look at it from a fluff point of view. I mean... How lame is that to leave?

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Malthor

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 18:19

JanMattys wrote:

Problem here is not YOUR behaviour in this particular situation, but the fact that Malthor is just walking to the final facing not good enough opposition.

I think that comment might be offensive to all four coaches that I have played so far.

Tza played a good game, but I had some great luck.

Dreadclaw played a great game and it was almost an overtime game where it would have hurt bad. To say Dread and his team was not good enough opposition is either insulting, or a comment said without enough thought.

Circ made one tactical error (leaving the Count exposed) then played superbly to set up a steal attempt, only to roll Skull, Skull and then injure himself. Although it was only 7 turns, he did compete hard for parts of it until disheartened by the dice which were very cruel (5 cas and one sent off in 7 turns, rolling snake eyes to pick up the ball with AG5 Sure Hands etc).

Pmg played the cup like a pro. He beat a super Dwarf team, by sacking a perfect AG5 Wardancer with 77 spp just because he was MNG to get a handicap. Was anyone calling him lame then? I was going to vote him for the spec award for that brilliant gutsy move. Against me, he used his apoth pre game on his Tree, a clear sign he was trying his hardest to win. He did give up possibly a little early, but that is his perogative. Until the double blitz, it was a very tight game at 2-2 and he was possibly ahead as I had two out (one injured, one sent off) and he only had one injured so I was certainly not confident of winning in regular time. He gave me a hard run, and was not afraid to foul until the double blitz which would frustrate and dishearten the best of coaches.

I have said what Mithrilpoint said in the post just before.

The coach got earnt/won their way there and they can play as they like. In a market economy where you have paid for tickets to watch that team play, you have rights to expect the team to earn the price of your tickets. When the games are free, if you don't like a particular coach's actions, don't watch him again, but he doesn't owe the specs anything as they have not paid a cent to the coach to watch.

Also, I think it is a bit rich for specs to demand that coaches not concede or play on when they are badly behind, yet many of these specs (not you in particular Jan) loudly celebrate the deaths of that coach's players, taunt him with /Hurt etc if he rolls double 1s etc. So Pmg should keep on playing so you can be entertained, and hear your boos if he fails to foul the player you want him to foul, listen to cheers when I maim his players?

Pay Pmg (and others) to watch his games and he might owe you some entertainment. Otherwise, enjoy what you get to watch and be thankful that we can even watch games freely.

sehou

Joined: Feb 04, 2005

Posted: Dec 14, 2005 - 18:22

Simple, if you join in a Fumbbl Major Tournament, you don't concede. I sincerely believe that a real form of sanction should be enforced here. If there is a concession, ALL your listed teams, all divisions alike, lose 2 FF points right away. Period. And same for Fumbbl Minor tourneys. I tried to join in with my defunct CD, but now, seeing peeps moving out the back door...