ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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 Posted:
Feb 17, 2014 - 00:06 |
 
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Pygmies are one of the least frequently played races in the Stunty Leeg, and that’s understandable. They don’t have chainsaws and bombs, they don’t have great slavering squigs, they don't mutate, and they can’t stab you off the pitch. What they do have, though, is versatility – they're one of the few stunty races that possesses the full range of catcher/blitzer/blocker/lineman/Big Guy positionals. They come with two of the best big guys in the game, a solid lineman with a built-in trick, speed, hitting power and G access. If you keep your positionals safe and develop the team, Pygmies can compete with even the best Stunty have to offer.
POSITIONALS
0-2 Kroxigor 6/5/1/9 Bone-head, Loner, Mighty Blow, Prehensile Tail, Thick Skull S (GAP) 130k
Love the Krox. Fear the Krox. For my money, he’s the no. 2-3 big guy in Stunty. He can’t quite match up with the tentacled Beast of Nurgle, and given enough time, the Chaos Spawn will likely surpass him too. But he has the killing power common to all big guys, great speed, and one more weapon: a tail that makes it very difficult for opposing players to dodge off him.
Skill choice for Kroxigors is mostly straightforward: Get block if you roll doubles (second double roll, for me, is tackle – but I’ve seen dodge and can’t condemn it.) But otherwise you've got options. Because you want to keep players in your tackle zone, grab is excellent. Guard always helps. Multiple block can speed up your damage dealing. (Remember, with the tail, you actually can hold two players up pretty well, so it’s not just for the first turn of the drive.) But also remember that there are times when two 2dbs with a guy who doesn’t have block and can’t use rerolls will backfire on you. Piling on keeps the krox from exerting his influence on tackle zones, but I don’t need to tell you it’ll help you hurt more opposing players.
In my opinion, though, the best first choice for a Krox who doesn’t get doubles is break tackle (for at least one of them). This is a MA6 guy – if you can get him free, he can keep up with just about everybody. Making your krox a viable option as a blitzer is great, especially early, when you haven’t yet developed your Jaguar Warriors. In desperate moments, he can even dodge into a cage on a 4+. (Probably don’t do this if you have any other option, but still.)
+ST seems like showing off to me more than an actual viable skill choice, especially in Stunty, where doubles skills are even better than usual. +MA seems like overkill. +AG is intriguing: the Krox has the speed to run with the ball, and in Stunty, who’s going to take it off him? If you get this, let me know how it works… my one reservation would be that you really need that guy hitting people.
Kroxigor strategy is fairly simple – try to mark as many opponents as possible and then hit them. Kroxes are great for thinning out the roster and generating player advantage. On offense, set them up on the line 99% of the time. On defense, you might want to set them up on the line anyway, if the opposing team doesn’t have any players with claw. But putting them a couple squares back works too.
0-2 Crocodile Warrior 4/2/2/8 Stunty, Right Stuff, Thick Skull AS (GP) 40k
These much-maligned (but secretly awesome) Junior Kroxes are brought to you by the number 8 and the letter S. The first thing they offer your team is resilience. Almost nobody in Stunty can match their armor, and that’s doubly important for a team that starts with AV6 and a shortage of good ball carriers. Put them on the line, where they can soak up a lot of punishment.
Of course, their access to strength skills means they eventually get to start dishing out that same punishment. (After a long, long time. It is no easy task to get SPP onto a rookie crocodile warrior.) Unless you get block or a stat, mighty blow is pretty much the clear candidate for the first skill, precisely because it makes further skills possible. Beyond that, the most brutally effective option is probably piling on (I like to think of it as the “death roll” – but that’s probably me justifying cheese with fluff), but guard’s a good one. And don’t forget that you can get A skills just like anyone else. Dodge increases survivability. Jump up is a nice later skill, especially if you’re piling on all the time, but remember that the jump up roll is a 3+. And diving tackle is good for the reasons that diving tackle is always good, especially on a guy who opponents may well want to get away from.
+ST is obviously awesome. +AG and +MA are not worth it for a guy who’s not carrying the ball on a team that has much better blitzers anyway. +AV seems tempting, but I might steer clear… just because an AV8 guy is great for soaking up hits at 40k, that doesn’t mean you want to pay 70k for the same guy plus AV9.
There aren’t a lot of circumstances where I wouldn’t put these guys on the line. On offense, you want them to hit people, either to skill them up so they can damage opponents, or because they’re already skilled up and can damage opponents. Anyway, they’re not going to get out of the scrum once it starts, so you might as well get them into it. On defense, I’ve been known to set up a croc who’s gotten block off the line, but even then I’m putting him in the middle of the pitch a couple squares back. If they blitz him, at least they’re not blitzing one of my less durable players.
0-2 Jaguar Warriors 6/2/3/6 Shadowing, Sprint, Claw, Right Stuff, Stunty GA (SP) 70k
A rookie jaguar warrior is quite possibly the worst value for money in stunty. Look at that mess of skills – he’s a lineman with +MA, sprint for some reason, claw for some reason, and… no dodge. And he costs 70k. But you take him because, well, G access, and once you feed him a couple TDs, you will not regret it.
It should not need to be said that the jaguar warrior needs block, dodge and tackle in some order. The only question is, which order? I go with block first, because it’s effective on offense AND defense. After that, I’d be strongly tempted to go with tackle second, especially if you don’t already have a player with tackle. Would I take mighty blow, or really any doubles skill, before these three are in place? Probably, but I wouldn’t be happy.
After those three, it all depends on what you want to do with them. The natural build for a jag is as a blitzer, and most of the assumptions that apply to non-Stunty blitzers hold true here. (Though in this Leeg, with block and tackle in place, strip ball is even less worth it.) I like frenzy, though then again I like frenzy in general. Side step and diving tackle are always solid choices, though you get enough of those elsewhere on the roster. And so on. (Sure feet is a stronger choice than it otherwise would be here, because the Jag already has sprint.)
I’d take +ST gladly, +AG willingly and +MA begrudgingly. (I might even pass up +MA as a first skill.)
As the first paragraph suggests, there’s a sharp difference in value between a rookie jaguar warrior and a skilled-up one. This is why you have to guard them with your life, even more so than the eagles. Do not get them involved in a scrum any more than you have to, and do not use them to mark the opponent unless they’re in no danger of getting hit in return. It can be difficult to protect these guys while also feeding them SPP, but they are absolutely worth it if you can.
0-2 Eagle Warriors 7/2/3/6 Leap, Right Stuff, Dodge, Stunty A (GSP) 50k
And now we come to your catchers. Speed is obviously their main weapon, and just about their only advantage over just getting a lineman. Fortunately, they’re cheap, so you might as well have them.
As with the jaguars, you really can map the skills of (for example) a human catcher onto these guys. Side Step is a good one, Diving Tackle is not bad (though you don’t usually want to use the eagles to mark opponents). The sprint/sure feet combo can make things difficult for slower opponents. If you get block, you might want to build your eagle as more of a blitzer.
This is another player who wants a lot of stat increases. +ST, like block, turns him into a good blitzer, and also makes him harder to knock down if he has the ball. +AG and +MA are both good. I wouldn’t take +AV, especially because you’d be turning down +MA.
Like the jaguars, these are both fragile and important. I’d tend to be a little freer with them than with the jaguars, though, because you don’t lose as much if they die. A rookie eagle is capable of doing almost all the things an eagle can do.
0-16 Pygmy 5/2/3/6 Shadowing, Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty A (GSP) 35k
Last but not least (but yes, actually least): the meat of the roster. I like pygmies – they’re basically halflings with a bit of style, but their one unusual skill happens to fit nicely with their role on the team.
Like a lot of stunty linemen, there is really not much you can do to improve a pygmy that is worth 20k. Side step is nice, but not essential. Diving tackle is a bit of an odd fit with shadowing, but if you squint you can make it work. If the opponent rolls a 1-2, he has to reroll or fall. If he rolls a 3-4, you dive and he has a 5+ roll to avoid a turnover. If he rolls a 5 or better, you have a chance to make him do it again. They stack, kind of!
But yeah, if you’ve gotten to a couple skills without a double or stat, min-max logic probably dictates you drop the guy. You don’t have to follow min-max logic, especially in stunty – I certainly don’t.
Take +ST, don’t take +MA/AV. +AG seems expensive for what it is, but you don’t exactly have the best handling game, so adding another guy who can pick up the ball and do something is probably a good deal.
These guys should be marking opponents shamelessly and repeatedly. They will get hurt a lot, but you will have a deep bench. 70% of the time, they will only be badly hurt. If they are not, you will have plenty of money to replace them. Having the opponent hit a pygmy means they are not hitting your jaguar or eagle warriors, and having the opponent trying to dodge off a pygmy (especially one with diving tackle) is a good deal for you.
MORE NOTES
I use 4 rerolls. It’s always nice to have a good supply of them in stunty, but this is a less RR-dependent team than anything with secret weapons or bloodlust rolls.
For the most part, the rule of thumb is that kroxes and crocs thin out the enemy on the line, and jaguars go blitzing in the open field. A couple exceptions: kroxes are great for squashing Skryre slaves, but one of the few places where the jaguars’ claws are relevant is against mechavermin. So if you’re trying to hit the mechavermin (strictly optional – once you kill enough slaves, they can’t do that much anyway), you probably want the jaguar involved there. Also, my primary target when I play Horrors is the flamers (regen + jump up makes attrition on the linos a bit of a fool’s errand, and MA4 is extra-subject to shadowing anyway), and the kroxes are much better at that.
Don’t be afraid to score quickly against most teams if it benefits you (e.g., if the opponent has SW rolls, you have KO rolls, they have some good blocks lined up against you). You have a pretty durable defensive line as these things go.
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Last edited by ahalfling on %b %17, %2014 - %06:%Feb; edited 3 times in total |
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cameronhawkins
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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Feb 17, 2014 - 01:21 |
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So that one doesn't have to keep checking the roster elsewhere, you should include each player's skill-access so it's easier to follow the commentary. |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Feb 17, 2014 - 05:28 |
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Done!
(I'm also thinking... is this useful? Seems to me most of the stuff I'm saying here should be apparent to veteran players, and newer players are unlikely to be playing Stunty.) |
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Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Feb 17, 2014 - 05:36 |
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I'd say it's useful. People do ask these sorts of questions, about skill choices and tactics, so having the answers there ready is a good thing. |
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Cavetroll
Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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Feb 17, 2014 - 05:39 |
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Great write-up. I played Pygmies before the CRP conversion but haven't tried them since then. I've been wanting to give them another go, and this guide will be a nice reference. |
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nerf indigo 2016 |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Feb 17, 2014 - 06:56 |
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All right!
Well, I had been hoping to solicit some help in making this more comprehensive. I looked up a couple rosters of Successful Pygmy Teams I Have Known, but mostly I'm going by my experience playing pygmies. Which is not bad exactly, because I've played as many post-revamp games with them as just about anyone, and had a fair amount of success doing so -- but it's certainly limited to my play style and to things I've tried. Does anything up there seem off to anyone? (Particularly for other pygmy players.) |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Feb 17, 2014 - 06:57 |
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Huh. I always figured +MV on a shadower would be a good choice...but if he's just an expedable marker that you want to avoid bloat with perhaps not. |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Feb 17, 2014 - 07:07 |
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Yeah, that's the kind of thing I'd like more perspectives on. My knee-jerk response is generally to turn down +MA on linemen, but I didn't consider the shadowing/+MA aspect. (I'm not sure I've ever rolled a 10 on a lino, but I'll try to remember this if I do.)
I mean, it could still be bloat after all. My initial instinct is to say that pygmy linos get knocked out of the game a lot, and anything tough enough that you'd want to blitz with it in the first place will probably turn around and obliterate the lino no matter how fast he is. But maybe not?
I'm also not entirely happy, reading back, with the talk of linos marking opposing players. I mean, it's what I'd say, but not quite to the extent I said it. The truth lies more in the range of "get in their way if you can, get in their tackle zone if you must," which is maybe not that different from what you'd do with any other team's linemen? I mean, is it important to say that linemen's job is mostly to assist on blocks, cage up, and mark opponents? Because that's REALLY not pygmy-specific... |
_________________
Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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Badoek
Joined: May 17, 2009
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Feb 17, 2014 - 07:58 |
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Good read, I wish I'd been able to read it before starting a Pygmy team (last year?). I'm terrible with them (retired the team after 3 games..) but I still like them. I'll have another go!
Edit: Anyone half-decent with any [S] team should write something similar for that team. A lot of Stunty teams are very different from the regular races and require quite some insights I'd say. |
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Cavetroll
Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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Feb 17, 2014 - 08:17 |
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Since you asked for opinions, here goes....
I think I would take the +MA on the Pygmy Lineman. As already mentioned, it would make Shadowing better. But also it has been my experience in Stunty (albeit limited) that movement makes more of a difference because many teams are so painfully slow. It might cause some bloat, but I feel it would be worth it. +MA/+AG makes a very good ballhandler/retriever if he is so fortunate as to get both.
I might also consider +AV on the Alligator/Crocodile Warriors, if he already had Mighty Blow. Otherwise, I think your suggestions of Guard/Dodge/Piling On are all good options. I personally would take PO last of those 3 because I view him as a support player. Would you consider either Stand Firm or Side Step at some point? Maybe in place of Piling On? |
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nerf indigo 2016 |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Feb 17, 2014 - 08:34 |
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Well, I guess we were never going to get a TALL guide to Pygmies...
boom boom! |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Feb 17, 2014 - 08:34 |
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I'll be here all week! |
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Badoek
Joined: May 17, 2009
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Feb 17, 2014 - 08:36 |
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:facepalm: |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Feb 17, 2014 - 11:46 |
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| Cavetroll wrote: | | Would you consider either Stand Firm or Side Step at some point? Maybe in place of Piling On? |
Well, talking about fourth skills for crocodile warriors is... pretty optimistic.  Mighty blow turns their rate of progression from "zombie" to "black orc", but that's still not exactly top gear, right? And ultimately, "get hit so these other guys don't get hit" is not a career path on which you should be paying into your retirement plan...
But SF/SS. Hm. I guess I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here, because I don't know if I've taken stand firm on any player in the last 5 years. But stand firm seems like the kind of thing you take in an environment where offenses are cage-based, and you set up in the middle of the pitch and try to inch forward while keeping the opponent from getting in. Whereas I'm not sure how often the positional game takes that form in stunty, for obvious reasons (the ease of getting into a cage, for one.)
In my experience, moving the heap one or two spaces is just not a big thing in stunty the way it can be in a dwarf mirror match or something... it's a lot like elves, where you make an ad hoc cage sometimes to obstruct the way in, but you're not generally setting that and slugging it out for territory. Generally. And me probably less so.
As for side step... I don't know. He's on the line. Seems like it might be a LITTLE useful to choose between being pushed off the line and being pushed sideways along the line, but I don't know that it has the kind of active impact on a game that I'm looking for in a skill.
But yeah. That's not my game. Is it someone's game? Maybe it should be. |
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