the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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 Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 10:05 |
 
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| mister__joshua wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | if I had to play with ogres I would probably have to stop playing all together |
Ogres crap? I heard they just won the Hubba 3rd division!  |
Well, maybe that coach made it work, but I'm sure Garion could never achieve such a result, especially with THAT attitude.  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 10:24 |
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I wish I could take the credit and claim it was my superior coaching but really it was just 1 ag4 ogre that made that dream possible. The rest of the team can die for all I care  |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Oct 15, 2014 - 10:26 |
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The problem I have is that I want to use one team and stick to it for a number of games. If I switch up the team every single game I might aswell play non-progression. |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Every time this idea crops up, I respond in the same way:
It won't work to force people to play teams they don't want to. Rather than being forced to play with race X, a lot of people will opt out.
The thing is that if enough people chose to play teams that were not killers, the division would become less bashy. I think it'd take somewhere along the lines of 5-10 active players to achieve this. So, my question is: Why don't *you* do it yourself? I don't think it's necessary to go to use all of the teams, but take it upon yourself to bring 2-3 non-bashers to the box and see how it pans out over a couple of months. Encourage others to do the same and we'll end up with a diverse environment where people will generally speaking not be having streaks of 5 games in a row against killers.
Essentially, it comes down to a mindset of "I'll sacrifice the ability to use bashy teams in order to improve the environment for others, rather than expecting others to change for my sake".
As for koadah's "One in four" idea, I'm pretty sure I've seen that suggested before and I am not inherently against that idea. Having themed draws every now and again might be a fun way to do things (first draw of the hour or whatever). It could be randomized as well, so each hour a draw would be done with a random effect. Perhaps something like:
- True random draw
- Xenophobe type thing (Only one specific race allowed)
- "No X skill", where specific skills are banned
- "Skill X required", where the team must have a particular skill
- Only teams from a specific group (UI light/dark, agile, bashers, stunty, etc)
- Specific TV ranges only
That's just a few possibilities off of the top of my head. I'm sure it would be possible to come up with a set of reasonable variations that could be implemented. It's clearly not fully fleshed out and it'd take some consideration as to what the effect would be for these. Also, it'd take some time to actually implement, which is something I don't have a whole lot of at this point (FFB update, new tech in prep for the Road to NAFC tourney, custom rosters for L are a few of the things at the top of my todo list for now). |
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Relezite
Joined: May 21, 2007
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Oct 15, 2014 - 11:08 |
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You're not wrong, but bash pervades because of the 'if you can't beat em, join em' mindset. Its frustrating to get ground out game after game so what is the average player going to do?
50%: Change to bash
50%: Quit the box
0%: Decide to keep suffering
I don't play those boring teams. Doesn't change a thing, still get them most of the time. Heck, the most famous and pervasive team in the box is a mono-grind monster that just gets activated over and over. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 11:19 |
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like you relezite I don't play with these bash teams, I think my last two outings have been khemri and pro elf, at low tv there are a few different races about and its fun, at high tv there will only ever be cpomb because the other races just cannot maintain a high TV for more than 1 or 2 games at a push, its sad but the only way to stay up there is having most of your team piling on all game so they are safe on the floor. Also people do seem to enjoy playing with cpomb, just not against it, I guess there are just a lot of coaches that cant take their pixels getting killed so they stomp on other peoples to protect their own.
Its a tricky situation really. Not sure if there is a solution to the problem of 'people'. What ever tools they are given I suspect they will always gravitate towards bash as it is the easiest way to maintain a strong team, whereas the likes of skaven, humans and elves etc... bounce up and down in TV and keeping these teams going can be a struggle at times.
Hmm i dunno. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Oct 15, 2014 - 12:36 |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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Oct 15, 2014 - 13:30 |
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I think there is a genuine argument for considering implementing a change, because Black Box is a great format and I think numbers would be much higher if coaches knew there would be a reasonable variety to the races they played against (particularly at higher TV or post 15 matches). Whilst some Black Box traditionalists may not want change, I think the right change would increase the number of coaches playing in the division, which should be a goal.
For what it's worth here's my idea - no idea whether it's been suggested before.
Box Diversity System
Each time you play a game in the Box you earn or lose Box Diversity Points (BDP) and you have to maintain them over a certain level. If someone wanted to build a Nurgle team, playing them 50 times in a row, that's fine - but if they wanted to do it all in one go they would have to earn the BDP to spend first. This system could be used to give further encouragement for playing less popular races particularly at certain ratings. E.g. double BDP for playing Amazon at 1600+ TV or triple for playing Halfling at any TV etc.
Coaches love a meta game and I am sure this would encourage more variety. I think this would work better than mandating multiple activations - because many coaches do like to play their teams in runs. However, the system would have to be enforced because otherwise some coaches would consider it a competition to see how low they could get their BDP (we coaches are great at finding meta games that suit our needs).
There could even be a prize each month for whoever topped the BDP. I can see the wave of halflings charging the Box now! |
Last edited by Endzone on %b %15, %2014 - %13:%Oct; edited 2 times in total |
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tmoila
Joined: Nov 25, 2012
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Oct 15, 2014 - 13:35 |
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I think it shouldn't limit the ability to play... but maybe it should add penalty to the scheduler so that it is less likely to pair low BDP player. |
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gg |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Oct 15, 2014 - 13:37 |
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Play what you want, just like Ranked. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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Oct 15, 2014 - 13:40 |
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Jimmy, in principle would you welcome a change that saw more volume and diversity in the Box - or do you think it is perfect as is? |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Oct 15, 2014 - 13:45 |
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| Endzone wrote: | | Jimmy, in principle would you welcome a change that saw more volume and diversity in the Box - or do you think it is perfect as is? |
This seems like a leading question. "Would you like Box to be better or are you fine with it as it is now"?
I don't want it to be better. That would suck  |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 13:47 |
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haha
Maybe there will be something little coming that will see an increase in box games. Nothing game changing, but pretty... |
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Tarabaralla
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
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Oct 15, 2014 - 13:48 |
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Box needs something to make killer team less attractive.
In a TT league, the clawmbpo spammer would be simply forced to change team after a while, because no one would like to play those matches.
Here we have a way broader environment, but limiting in any way the race coaches choose seems to go to the wrong way, losing players (I'm personally stuck playing 3 races only in the box, occasionally running another one for a streak of games then leaving it, but I guess no one will ever complain about my skaven, vampire or lizard teams making the box less fun ^^).
Themed draws are perfect.
Just make all themes anti-boredom: there's no need for elf-free draws, we get enough of them anyway. PO-free draws seem the best: you may even have a 2nd Chaos team without PO for those draws, who cares? Maybe running out of killstack skills too early will lead someone to choose some tactical skill like Prehensile Tail, Diving Tackle, Two Heads...
My 2 cents |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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Oct 15, 2014 - 13:50 |
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| Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | Endzone wrote: | | Jimmy, in principle would you welcome a change that saw more volume and diversity in the Box - or do you think it is perfect as is? |
This seems like a leading question. "Would you like Box to be better or are you fine with it as it is now"?
I don't want it to be better. That would suck |
If Jimmy agrees higher volume and diversity = better then I agree it is leading, my question really is whether Jimmy wants those things - because from what I have read he is generally opposed to change to the Box. I think his opinions are equally valid and a trying to tease out what they really are! |
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