57 coaches online • Server time: 18:44
* * * Did you know? The player with the strongest arm is Cherrystone Hotpack with 5758 yards passed.
Recent Forum Topics  Exempt teams | Getting diced 3 game... | 7s for fummbl? |
2011-03-12 16:09:01
64 votes, rating 3.2
64 votes, rating 3.2
LRB6 will harm Fumbbl..
..if the rules are not changed, or Christer changes them himself.
Lrb5 and Lrb6 had very much improved league play, which most coaches including myself strongly approved. We all know about the problems in lrb4 regarding this point. And we know, that fumbbl found a way to compensate this.
League Play includes the fact, that usually order and pairing of the matches are fixed.
B as a division is comparable in this point, as a consequence LRB5/6 improved league play, but spoiled it on the same time by the claw/mb/po rule flaw.
IMO R division is an EXCEPTION to the way matches are usually arranged and personally I would prefer to have it randomly done like in B. But here we have the mentioned problems (played races reduced, tactical demand almost destroyed)
I liked the comment "it is all about having fun", which leads me to the main problem: Many coaches actually have NO FUN playing 80% of their games vs the same concept and races. Imo this number of disappointed coaches will increase, as they play more boring B games.
R is no real alternative, thats why many coaches used to love L and stuck to it for most of their games (like me). So what will happen, if L is converted to the new client is pretty obvious.
B showed us impressevely, what will happen to L and all kind of tournaments.
Lets face it: If nothing changes, BB wont be played that much anymore.
This is a serious issue, because it harms BB and Fumbbl!
Thats why i can only encourage everyone, to write emails to GW and write postings in the relevant Forums. There have been many ideas, how we can solve the problem or at least do something against it. No matter how exactly its done, most importantly something happens and preferably soon.
Lrb5 and Lrb6 had very much improved league play, which most coaches including myself strongly approved. We all know about the problems in lrb4 regarding this point. And we know, that fumbbl found a way to compensate this.
League Play includes the fact, that usually order and pairing of the matches are fixed.
B as a division is comparable in this point, as a consequence LRB5/6 improved league play, but spoiled it on the same time by the claw/mb/po rule flaw.
IMO R division is an EXCEPTION to the way matches are usually arranged and personally I would prefer to have it randomly done like in B. But here we have the mentioned problems (played races reduced, tactical demand almost destroyed)
I liked the comment "it is all about having fun", which leads me to the main problem: Many coaches actually have NO FUN playing 80% of their games vs the same concept and races. Imo this number of disappointed coaches will increase, as they play more boring B games.
R is no real alternative, thats why many coaches used to love L and stuck to it for most of their games (like me). So what will happen, if L is converted to the new client is pretty obvious.
B showed us impressevely, what will happen to L and all kind of tournaments.
Lets face it: If nothing changes, BB wont be played that much anymore.
This is a serious issue, because it harms BB and Fumbbl!
Thats why i can only encourage everyone, to write emails to GW and write postings in the relevant Forums. There have been many ideas, how we can solve the problem or at least do something against it. No matter how exactly its done, most importantly something happens and preferably soon.
Comments
Posted by pythrr on 2011-03-12 16:11:57
I hate to break it to you, but GW really do not care.
Posted by studmandudebro on 2011-03-12 16:32:44
block and dodge are tooo much, they are always first picks and then to top it off you can get both on the same player and really break the game. I'm writing GW now
Posted by PeteW on 2011-03-12 16:35:16
pythrr is correct.
Also, in tabletop play, the tournaments are mostly low TV affairs with few skills and little or no stacking. Hence, there hasn't been a vast change from 4->5->6. Small things, but nothing major.
It will be interesting to see how the tabletop community experience 6 in their leagues. If all of their leagues become dominated by PO+MB then we may see the rules review committee take notice.
Of course, we could always make a Fumbbl LRB, but I believe that has been suggested elsewhere!
Also, in tabletop play, the tournaments are mostly low TV affairs with few skills and little or no stacking. Hence, there hasn't been a vast change from 4->5->6. Small things, but nothing major.
It will be interesting to see how the tabletop community experience 6 in their leagues. If all of their leagues become dominated by PO+MB then we may see the rules review committee take notice.
Of course, we could always make a Fumbbl LRB, but I believe that has been suggested elsewhere!
Posted by SzieberthAdam on 2011-03-12 16:58:19
You can make a League where lets say only one PO is allowed. Problem solved.
Posted by Calcium on 2011-03-12 17:04:33
Im going to write to my GW/talk BB/my local MP/God almighty immediately regarding this most serious of issues....
The few coaches that are crying hard about LRB6! I really think Brainsaw and Frank need a show of their own, it could be called 'German whinebags say the funniest things'
It is clear the majority of coaches in our out of FUMBBL either do not care (just let me play the game) or are happy to use the current ruleset and when things are reviewed (as they inevitably will be) said coaches will run with a new ruleset.
Keep in mind that whatever rules exist, FUMBBL will find a way to metagame them to breaking point! It has happened before and will happen again....(BSG line anyone?)
The few coaches that are crying hard about LRB6! I really think Brainsaw and Frank need a show of their own, it could be called 'German whinebags say the funniest things'
It is clear the majority of coaches in our out of FUMBBL either do not care (just let me play the game) or are happy to use the current ruleset and when things are reviewed (as they inevitably will be) said coaches will run with a new ruleset.
Keep in mind that whatever rules exist, FUMBBL will find a way to metagame them to breaking point! It has happened before and will happen again....(BSG line anyone?)
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2011-03-12 17:10:18
Team Games played BWR BBR
Orc 142 152.47 152.78
Chaos 126 152.81 153.44
Dwarf 119 152.18 155.00
CDwarf 118 154.40 153.29
Necro 109 152.90 151.27
Norse 105 152.54 150.35
Dark Elf 101 155.71 148.91
Nurgle 99 150.66 152.17
Pact 99 151.50 151.22
Undead 92 153.55 151.20
Lizard 84 152.91 148.61
Skaven 72 153.35 148.51
Human 66 152.35 150.29
Khemri 61 150.77 151.66
Slann 59 153.57 145.41
W Elf 59 154.64 148.11
High Elf 58 153.89 148.09
Amazon 49 153.82 152.30
U.world 33 148.21 146.13
Elf 31 154.65 147.31
Vampire 28 153.51 146.52
Ogre 24 145.31 147.32
Goblin 16 147.82 145.52
Halfling 11 150.92 145.80
From the black box page. Showing that chaos, pact and nurgle teams don't really make up 80% of teams. Seriously, get over yourself. what you are stating is an opinion, not fact. Maybe you should find out whether the site actually agrees with you before trying to force your own interpretation of the rules down our throat.
It's not even like pact/chaos and nurgle teams have a particularly good BWR, elf team blow them out of the water with regards to actually winning games, maybe we should all write to GW and demand that they tone down elf teams.....
Orc 142 152.47 152.78
Chaos 126 152.81 153.44
Dwarf 119 152.18 155.00
CDwarf 118 154.40 153.29
Necro 109 152.90 151.27
Norse 105 152.54 150.35
Dark Elf 101 155.71 148.91
Nurgle 99 150.66 152.17
Pact 99 151.50 151.22
Undead 92 153.55 151.20
Lizard 84 152.91 148.61
Skaven 72 153.35 148.51
Human 66 152.35 150.29
Khemri 61 150.77 151.66
Slann 59 153.57 145.41
W Elf 59 154.64 148.11
High Elf 58 153.89 148.09
Amazon 49 153.82 152.30
U.world 33 148.21 146.13
Elf 31 154.65 147.31
Vampire 28 153.51 146.52
Ogre 24 145.31 147.32
Goblin 16 147.82 145.52
Halfling 11 150.92 145.80
From the black box page. Showing that chaos, pact and nurgle teams don't really make up 80% of teams. Seriously, get over yourself. what you are stating is an opinion, not fact. Maybe you should find out whether the site actually agrees with you before trying to force your own interpretation of the rules down our throat.
It's not even like pact/chaos and nurgle teams have a particularly good BWR, elf team blow them out of the water with regards to actually winning games, maybe we should all write to GW and demand that they tone down elf teams.....
Posted by MiBasse on 2011-03-12 17:11:35
"B showed us impressevely, what will happen to L and all kind of tournaments."
It did? How is Blackbox comparable to any league or tournament?
It did? How is Blackbox comparable to any league or tournament?
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-12 17:12:00
Studman has changed his name :S
Posted by studmandudebro on 2011-03-12 17:15:35
:S
Posted by Adar on 2011-03-12 17:17:08
The "only same kind of teams" issue is a myth. Chaos are a bit overrepresentated but most of those builds that I have faced would be considered cherrypicking material in ranked.
Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2011-03-12 17:22:26
a bloo bloo bloo tears of an orc coach
Posted by Macavity on 2011-03-12 17:33:50
dammitall. That's it, I'm going to speech. watch for the thread. I can't get over how wrong and knee-jerk all this whining is.
Posted by Cavetroll on 2011-03-12 18:03:33
While I understand your frustration with Clawpomb, I don't agree with your sentiments. I do get annoyed when I lose a particularly bloody game to a 'killer' team, same as most people. But I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. I do think there is a way to mitigate Clawpomb within the current ruleset, and darnit if I'm not going to try and find it. Hopefully others are doing the same thing and once the code is broken, we'll share it with everyone.
As for FUMBBL dying, I checked the stats page for last 30 days, 30 weeks, and 30 months. It appears that the site is doing well for now. The number of games played is not where it was in 2009 (months 1-11 anyway), but it is comparable with where it was for most of 2010 and better than some months.
Nothing wrong with posting your feelings in a blog, just understand that not everyone is going to agree with them. And as demonstrated below, some will get annoyed if they feel like you are speaking for the entire site.
As for FUMBBL dying, I checked the stats page for last 30 days, 30 weeks, and 30 months. It appears that the site is doing well for now. The number of games played is not where it was in 2009 (months 1-11 anyway), but it is comparable with where it was for most of 2010 and better than some months.
Nothing wrong with posting your feelings in a blog, just understand that not everyone is going to agree with them. And as demonstrated below, some will get annoyed if they feel like you are speaking for the entire site.
Posted by Cavetroll on 2011-03-12 18:04:15
Forgot to add the link to stats:
http://www.fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=stats&op=games&type=month
http://www.fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=stats&op=games&type=month
Posted by TheCount on 2011-03-12 18:13:17
League will find a path (as the nature does). Especially league will have its own rules to balance the number of basher-teams and/or ClawPOMB players.
The variety of teams you face in the box is higher than in LRB 4 imho. Several teams got "playable" like Norse, Nurgle and others got pimped like Necromantics, Goblins, Vampires and so on.
Additional i dislike prejudicing a nation cause of 2 statements @ Calcium
P.S. Phytrr is sooo right...and it feels so bad to know that :D
The variety of teams you face in the box is higher than in LRB 4 imho. Several teams got "playable" like Norse, Nurgle and others got pimped like Necromantics, Goblins, Vampires and so on.
Additional i dislike prejudicing a nation cause of 2 statements @ Calcium
P.S. Phytrr is sooo right...and it feels so bad to know that :D
Posted by Keith-Lemon on 2011-03-12 18:24:31
Quote from Flashback13
"As for FUMBBL dying, I checked the stats page for last 30 days, 30 weeks, and 30 months. It appears that the site is doing well for now. The number of games played is not where it was in 2009 (months 1-11 anyway), but it is comparable with where it was for most of 2010 and better than some months."
Well the numbers would be alot higher if friends could play each other, I had a group of 5 players all wanting to play each other but ranked is the only place we can do this on the new client and we was told we couldnt.
Now them friends have turned there back on FUMBBL already.
"As for FUMBBL dying, I checked the stats page for last 30 days, 30 weeks, and 30 months. It appears that the site is doing well for now. The number of games played is not where it was in 2009 (months 1-11 anyway), but it is comparable with where it was for most of 2010 and better than some months."
Well the numbers would be alot higher if friends could play each other, I had a group of 5 players all wanting to play each other but ranked is the only place we can do this on the new client and we was told we couldnt.
Now them friends have turned there back on FUMBBL already.
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-12 18:28:13
You will be able to do that in L, it just isn't ready yet. I cant wait for L. I really hope it comes soon :)
Posted by Keith-Lemon on 2011-03-12 18:32:10
It has taken me awhile to get them to sign up it was hard work trying to get them to stop playing cyanides game.
Now this has happened and they are all disappointed, One of them even said "just as i was starting to enjoy FUMBBL" League needs to hurry up other wise these players will just not bother :(
Now this has happened and they are all disappointed, One of them even said "just as i was starting to enjoy FUMBBL" League needs to hurry up other wise these players will just not bother :(
Posted by Keith-Lemon on 2011-03-12 18:33:15
If a admin can give me an aprox date for league i could tell them and hope they wait.
Posted by Frankenstein on 2011-03-12 18:43:39
Woohoo, seems like a certain diehard BBRC/Galak-fanboy is on a personal crusade against me.
Each to his own, I say, wouldn't have thought I was worth the honor though =]
Each to his own, I say, wouldn't have thought I was worth the honor though =]
Posted by Brainsaw on 2011-03-12 19:11:40
as we can nicely see, the number of games played in B have decreased from 380 to 270 games per day within a month! i think this tendency speaks for itself.
and the new client has now been active for some time.
am i the only one, who gets thoughtful seeing this?
..and it cannot all be blamed to calcium and jimmyfantastic ;-)
and the new client has now been active for some time.
am i the only one, who gets thoughtful seeing this?
..and it cannot all be blamed to calcium and jimmyfantastic ;-)
Posted by Calcium on 2011-03-12 19:17:27
http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32476&start=105
this link is a talk FFB forum post which a few coaches from FUMBBL are involved in. Here Galak offers a solution which will stop your crying over the whole ClawPOMB issue. That's if Christer decides to even implement it.
Surely stating your opinion on the rules and petitioning Christer to change the rule should be enough.....I doubt it will though, you do seem to love a good crusade as well as the clear obsession to prove yourself right over everyone else.
As for blaming me and Jimmy, lol. I'm also happy to be blamed for the Japanese Tsunami and world poverty, and I'm sure Jimmy has no problem with it either.....
this link is a talk FFB forum post which a few coaches from FUMBBL are involved in. Here Galak offers a solution which will stop your crying over the whole ClawPOMB issue. That's if Christer decides to even implement it.
Surely stating your opinion on the rules and petitioning Christer to change the rule should be enough.....I doubt it will though, you do seem to love a good crusade as well as the clear obsession to prove yourself right over everyone else.
As for blaming me and Jimmy, lol. I'm also happy to be blamed for the Japanese Tsunami and world poverty, and I'm sure Jimmy has no problem with it either.....
Posted by Frankenstein on 2011-03-12 19:47:11
A completely clueless guy who is responsible for the issue which he claims doesn't exist in the first place coming up with a solution for aforementioned non-existent issue.
Beats me =]
Beats me =]
Posted by Arktoris on 2011-03-12 20:04:17
in lrb4 lots of people complained about dirty player. for a bit of history check out the forum topic "fouling, part of the game....or cheesy exploit".
eventually they learned to deal with it. same will go with lrb6.
eventually they learned to deal with it. same will go with lrb6.
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-12 20:05:33
Come on Macavity where is this thread you promised. I was hoping you would be the voice of reason and put an end to this once and for all :)
Posted by Calcium on 2011-03-12 20:07:51
Galak = clueless? I'm sure he's devastated by your opinion!
Is it me or is this getting REALLY tedious? Play here or don't play here already!
Is it me or is this getting REALLY tedious? Play here or don't play here already!
Posted by Cloggy on 2011-03-12 21:40:36
I would like to take this opportunity to encourage all coaches to stop this debate unless they feel they have a unique new angle to present.
R and B are both functioning as they were intended, L will be along soon enough and will also function as intended.
There is no such thing as a superior division, there is no such thing as a bad way to play.
Let's all enjoy our hobby the way we like it most and stop this nonsense.
R and B are both functioning as they were intended, L will be along soon enough and will also function as intended.
There is no such thing as a superior division, there is no such thing as a bad way to play.
Let's all enjoy our hobby the way we like it most and stop this nonsense.
Posted by Frankenstein on 2011-03-12 22:14:10
Calcium, aren't you the guy who told others to stop patronizing him? I don't even know why you'd address me all the time, can't remember that I ever bothered replying to anything you said. Are you really THAT easily disturbed by me? I must admit that I feel quite comfortable with you and your bullies hating me, but at the end of the day, I don't care to be honest.
Posted by Calcium on 2011-03-12 22:51:09
I just don't agree at all with what you are saying. And post your opinions in a PUBLIC blog? Expect comments. Thats all. Cloggy is right, there's little to be achieved in commenting further....
Posted by lizvis on 2011-03-12 22:51:46
i read the title of the blog and gave it a 6 before i read the first sentence. to those of you who can't figure it out, he's clearly talking about the direction the site is headed in, and not the current state of things. fantastic blog, simple, to the point and accurate.
Posted by koadah on 2011-03-12 22:54:46
Hmm, so the "new client effect" didn't last forever and that means the end of the world?
People hate the new teams with the clawPOMB and that is killing Fumbbl?
That is why everyone is avoiding them and is playing [R] where you can choose your opponents?
[R] has always been the biggest division so how come everyone didn't just go back to [R] when it switched over?
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=stats&op=games&type=month
It seems that even with all these nasty teams [B ] is doing more business than it did in it's 'heyday'.
So if the rules are the problem why wasn't there a mass exodus from [B ] as soon as [R] switched?
The simple solution is to choose your opponents but people aren't doing it.
Maybe, just maybe people like a bit of ultrabash.
People hate the new teams with the clawPOMB and that is killing Fumbbl?
That is why everyone is avoiding them and is playing [R] where you can choose your opponents?
[R] has always been the biggest division so how come everyone didn't just go back to [R] when it switched over?
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=stats&op=games&type=month
It seems that even with all these nasty teams [B ] is doing more business than it did in it's 'heyday'.
So if the rules are the problem why wasn't there a mass exodus from [B ] as soon as [R] switched?
The simple solution is to choose your opponents but people aren't doing it.
Maybe, just maybe people like a bit of ultrabash.
Posted by Craftnburn on 2011-03-12 23:47:53
"The simple solution is to choose your opponents but people aren't doing it.
Maybe, just maybe people like a bit of ultrabash."
No, people are lazy and the Bot is just less work than Gamefinder...
Maybe, just maybe people like a bit of ultrabash."
No, people are lazy and the Bot is just less work than Gamefinder...
Posted by gandresch on 2011-03-14 11:07:14
The things were discussed on tffb and I think, the solution is quite easy: Get an AV7 team and/or get a lot of Fend on this or on your other teams. The problem isn't the ClawMB, the problem is, that PO can be combined with it. But for everything there is a negation. With Fend and DP you can go against these kind of teams.
A player can gain 6 skills. If the player already has PO/MB/Claw, then there is mostly no Grab or Juggernaut on the players. If you know, that the teams in Box are that way, then why don't play Norse or Amas all the way (WE or Elf perhaps), get some Dodge, Fend and all the stuff, that the teams can't cancel with their very one-sided skill choices. You can say, that Fend is a skill not worth it? Then live with the PO or take it.
The reason why this works is, that everyone wants to play this way and that most of the coaches don't switch between LRB4 and 6. Still taking Block, then Guard, then ... . Sometimes there are much better choices!
On the other hand, Chaos gets good around 200+. So if your team doesn't reach the 180 you do not have the problems of playing against a team with a lot of these skill combinations. Let the chaos teams play themselves if they like to.
There are multiple ways to get rid of the problem.
But I agree with you. FUMBBL relies on the coaches playing here. It all is about fun. But I say, too, that most coaches don't like the ideas that are against FUMBBL. I wrote something on fumbbl dying out in 2009 and most people laughed at me. Then the number of games reduced below 1/4 of the games of 2009 or even 2008 until 2011. It is good, that there are other people thinking that way, even if most of the coaches don't like the idea (while they play their Box Chaos and never have the idea, that they are doing the same stuff every game).
A player can gain 6 skills. If the player already has PO/MB/Claw, then there is mostly no Grab or Juggernaut on the players. If you know, that the teams in Box are that way, then why don't play Norse or Amas all the way (WE or Elf perhaps), get some Dodge, Fend and all the stuff, that the teams can't cancel with their very one-sided skill choices. You can say, that Fend is a skill not worth it? Then live with the PO or take it.
The reason why this works is, that everyone wants to play this way and that most of the coaches don't switch between LRB4 and 6. Still taking Block, then Guard, then ... . Sometimes there are much better choices!
On the other hand, Chaos gets good around 200+. So if your team doesn't reach the 180 you do not have the problems of playing against a team with a lot of these skill combinations. Let the chaos teams play themselves if they like to.
There are multiple ways to get rid of the problem.
But I agree with you. FUMBBL relies on the coaches playing here. It all is about fun. But I say, too, that most coaches don't like the ideas that are against FUMBBL. I wrote something on fumbbl dying out in 2009 and most people laughed at me. Then the number of games reduced below 1/4 of the games of 2009 or even 2008 until 2011. It is good, that there are other people thinking that way, even if most of the coaches don't like the idea (while they play their Box Chaos and never have the idea, that they are doing the same stuff every game).
Posted by the_Sage on 2011-08-09 12:07:06
Aside from whether the problem is true, the main point about clawpomb is that it takes ages to build a team like that. People grind through those in the box, but I'm not sure it will be as frequent in league.