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Are ogres a lost cause?
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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011
Post   Posted: Feb 04, 2015 - 19:27 Reply with quote Back to top
Just give them 1 illegal substitution instead of an apothecary? (Same price.)

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Jumboparagon



Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Post   Posted: Feb 04, 2015 - 19:45 Reply with quote Back to top
0-4 goblin option... or even weapons? say a pumpwagon or 2?
I do remember the good old illegal substitution days. Those were indeed fun times, and the board full of annoying snots felt flavorful, and almost competitive
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004
Post   Posted: Feb 04, 2015 - 20:39 Reply with quote Back to top
this could easily be done with a poll:

Are Ogres a lost cause?
Yes.
Macabeo



Joined: Feb 13, 2011
Post   Posted: Feb 04, 2015 - 23:20 Reply with quote Back to top
I actually like the design of the Ogre team, it's probably my favourite team. They could have gnoblars instead of snotlings, but hey.

Anyway, I think the problem is quantitative, not qualitative. Too few ogres, too expensive, expensive rerolls. How about this?

0-8 130k Ogres
60k RRs (orcs and goblins have 60k RRs, I think this is actually reasonable)
AV6 Snotlings (MA6 Snotlings feel wrong, and change a lot the style of the team)

This way you can have 5 Ogres and 3 RRs instead of only 2 RRs at the beginning. At 1520 TV you'd have 8 Ogres, 7 Snotlings, 4 RRs, 5 FF and Apo. Not competitive (probably still tier 3), but with 8 ogres they may be playable before CPOMB comes in.
Medon



Joined: Jan 28, 2015
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 09:50 Reply with quote Back to top
I played my first Ogre match yesterday and I liked it! Defense against cages is very strong. You can first throw a snotling to the ball carrier. If it misses chances are still high you will knock a corner down. And then blitz in with an Ogre to the ball carrier. I would say Pro would be a nice skill to reduce the bonehead events by half...?
Rabe



Joined: Jun 06, 2009
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 10:08 Reply with quote Back to top
Pro is great for big guys with Loner, but since Ogre ogres don't suffer from that (at least!), I'd value Block/Dodge way higher. I personally like Dodge a lot because it combines so well with Break Tackle. But Block is probably the more solid choice in the long run.

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cdassak



Joined: Oct 23, 2013
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 10:15 Reply with quote Back to top
Block for first double, you ll get more mileage from it than Pro.
For second double either Dodge or Tackle.
Third could be Dodge/Tackle/sure hands/pro

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Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 10:26 Reply with quote Back to top
Macabeo wrote:
I actually like the design of the Ogre team, it's probably my favourite team. They could have gnoblars instead of snotlings, but hey.

Anyway, I think the problem is quantitative, not qualitative. Too few ogres, too expensive, expensive rerolls. How about this?

0-8 130k Ogres
60k RRs (orcs and goblins have 60k RRs, I think this is actually reasonable)
AV6 Snotlings (MA6 Snotlings feel wrong, and change a lot the style of the team)

This way you can have 5 Ogres and 3 RRs instead of only 2 RRs at the beginning. At 1520 TV you'd have 8 Ogres, 7 Snotlings, 4 RRs, 5 FF and Apo. Not competitive (probably still tier 3), but with 8 ogres they may be playable before CPOMB comes in.


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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 10:52 Reply with quote Back to top
If both ogres and snots would be 10k cheaper, even then they would be a tier 3 team. I would go that route as human ogres should also be cheaper, and that would result no stat change.

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Deniz87



Joined: Aug 06, 2011
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 11:40 Reply with quote Back to top
Macabeo wrote:
Too few ogres, too expensive, expensive rerolls.


Agree. Yep.
jamesfarrell129



Joined: Dec 23, 2009
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 11:48 Reply with quote Back to top
I like ogres, even though they do royally suck balls.

I'm not certain what skills are good or bad; I always take Sure Hands as a first double on the team (I've always had one as a first skill, not sure if I'd take it on an ogre already skilled... would depend on first roll). I don't feel that Guard is all that useful - you're big guys should be bashing ok themselves, and they'll just go stupid and lose it anyway.

My box team have 2 break tackle/juggernaut players (and another with just juggs who is 1SPP from skill #2) who are great fun - dodging into cages on a 4+ is great. I'd love to get frenzy on one of those bad boys! I've got 2 piling on players who will probably get stand firm next. And my sure hands guy will get break tackle and then, um, dunno.

Snotlings: diving tackle, hope for double, retire. Would consider sure feet or catch to make an-almost viable one-turn attempt. I had a snot with +AG, but he very rarely used it, and then he died. Snotlings are for the most part TV bloat who should just get in the way.

tl;dr: ogres are a lost cause, but they're fun!

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sann0638



Joined: Aug 09, 2010
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 13:16 Reply with quote Back to top
Said it before, but will say it again. I had an Ag5, sure feet, sprint snotling in PBEM and a strong arm ogre. Once had a wood elf coach concede when I was winning 5-4 because it was "silly" Smile

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LucaAnt



Joined: Apr 24, 2006
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 14:42 Reply with quote Back to top
sann0638 wrote:
Said it before, but will say it again. I had an Ag5, sure feet, sprint snotling in PBEM and a strong arm ogre. Once had a wood elf coach concede when I was winning 5-4 because it was "silly" Smile


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NerdBird



Joined: Apr 08, 2014
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 16:17 Reply with quote Back to top
Ogres a lost cause because they give too many casualties to opponents. Killing a snot should not give you 2 spp's. We used to do a 3 for 1 deal when our friend played snotlings.
We have a problem when an ELF team can do this: https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3643488
xnoelx



Joined: Jun 05, 2012
Post   Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 16:24 Reply with quote Back to top
NerdBird wrote:
Ogres a lost cause because they give too many casualties to opponents. Killing a snot should not give you 2 spp's. We used to do a 3 for 1 deal when our friend played snotlings.
We have a problem when an ELF team can do this: https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3643488


Er... that was a builder game against an all snotling team, and was designed specifically to give the elves as many SPP as possible. There was no competitive play involved.

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