pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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  Posted:
Apr 13, 2011 - 02:37 |
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Which is why we need a rules clarification: what type of journyman use/abuse is allowed? How many is excessive? How much cash can one hoard and refuse to buy new players? |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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  Posted:
Apr 13, 2011 - 03:26 |
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Or even better, clean up the rules page. Get rid of the rules that not only aren't essential to a well run online league, but not even the admins care to enforce as written. It sets a bad example for the rules that are needed.
If I'm allowed to disobey rule A about not striving for 11 players, then I guess I can also disobey the "no second account rule", just so long as I don't play vs myself. If I don't play vs myself, I'm not hurting anyone and not disobeying the "spirit" of the rule. |
_________________ Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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Timlagor
Joined: Feb 13, 2009
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  Posted:
Apr 13, 2011 - 05:42 |
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The rule was brought in Pre-CRP to deal with teams who sat on 3-6 players with a big bank in R. They were hopelessly uncompetitive in any match (unless they found someone similar). Every admin I've seen comment since has said that it's ok to use Journeymen deliberately.
..Gothcon are fairly close to the line but since the don't even have enough cash to reach 12 players with Linos (let alone buying any positionals) I don't think they are there yet but the admins might keep an eye on it.
So if you see someone starting a game without the journeymen they are entitled to then you probably have a complaint under that rule but cash that can't get you to 12 players? -not likely. It could do with a little clarification but it was deliberately vague to give the admins flexibility: if the admins call someone on this one, they will be clearly in breach. |
_________________ Time for a new .sig |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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  Posted:
Apr 13, 2011 - 08:53 |
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Journeyman 'abuse' is a joke.
Everyone seems to be complaining how bashy CRP is.
But if it's that bashy, then surely it's retarded to go into every match with just 11 players. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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  Posted:
Apr 13, 2011 - 08:57 |
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no.
the abuse is where people have 4 killers, 7 expendable journeymen who they replace for free every game and keep banking the cash....
it is a way of keeping TV very low |
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Fela
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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  Posted:
Apr 13, 2011 - 09:24 |
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pythrr wrote: |
the abuse is where people have 4 killers, 7 expendable journeymen who they replace for free every game and keep banking the cash....
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So where does the cash come into play?
Even if there WERE a team like that, handicapping yourself with 7 loners is not a winning strategy, not even with 4 'killers'. |
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gjopie
Joined: Oct 27, 2009
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  Posted:
Apr 13, 2011 - 09:30 |
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Fela wrote: | pythrr wrote: |
the abuse is where people have 4 killers, 7 expendable journeymen who they replace for free every game and keep banking the cash....
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So where does the cash come into play?
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Agreed - I think that a big pile of cash may be a by-product of playing like this, but doesn't actively help this kind of team. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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  Posted:
Apr 13, 2011 - 11:05 |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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  Posted:
Apr 13, 2011 - 13:24 |
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plasmoid wrote: | Journeyman 'abuse' is a joke. |
Fact.
Journeymen cost as much TV as a regular lineman but are strictly worse.
IIRC the rule disallowing "deliberate team deteriation" was put in place to discourage a wave of 1-man and 5-a-side teams that sprung up a while back. Christer was concerned that these teams a) broke the spirit of ranked and b) caused a number of game crashing bugs. Strictly speaking hiring journeymen satisfies the rule anyway - you have 11 players on the team at the start of each game. |
_________________ Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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  Posted:
Apr 14, 2011 - 01:12 |
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ok, so if we eliminate the option to have less journeymen (and therefore mandatorily give 11 players for next match), then we can erase the rule from the rules page since it's outdated.
correct?
with so much else requiring attention, I won't push for the time being. |
_________________ Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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Tarabaralla
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
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  Posted:
Apr 14, 2011 - 12:54 |
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Wow! Two teams in the richest list! And my Chaos Pact has only 70k less than Carnis one
Gotta make some room in my chamber for the piles of gold.. |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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  Posted:
Apr 14, 2011 - 12:58 |
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Hi Fela,
you asked what the point of the Bank is.
Allow me to elaborate a little:
Jervis wanted BB to be about waxing and waning TV, rather than about building into power and just staying there.
Restricted winnings, Spiralling Expenses and the weaker apothecary are all means to that end. So are some of the inducements.
Originally, a hard cap to TV was considered. I.e. go above the cap, and you'll get 0 winnings. In the end, it was replaced with the softer cap called Spiralling Expenses. But the idea was the same: There was supposed to be a cieling to the TV-building.
Leagues are free to adjust Spiralling Expenses, but IIRC we wanted teams to hit a cap around 220TV. By then teams would be at -4 winnings, and would have a very hard time growing any further.
If TV250 chaos teams are currently dominating, then kill-stack isn't the only factor. Certain teams seem able to grow very high, and by design the inducement system gives these teams quite a bit of an advantage. In the MBBL we've just had a chaos team hit TV275, and to me that says that Spiralling Expenses aren't working properly.
And maybe that's because JJ nixed the bank rule. If you can go near the cap with a million in the bank, then it will take forever for Spiralling Expenses to eat up your winnings. If you can only come in with 100K then it's a different story.
Still, you might ask: What's the point of that.
The point is that a team which has moved above 220 would very soon find it's coffers empty. And with no cash all it takes is a death or career-ending-injury to force you back under the cap. Or make you soldier on above the cap in a weakened state.
Cheers
Martin |
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Tarabaralla
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
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  Posted:
Apr 14, 2011 - 13:12 |
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King_Ghidra
Joined: Sep 14, 2009
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  Posted:
Jun 19, 2011 - 23:55 |
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Strigidae broke the Wood Elf record.
(and we have a proper team - unlike Dragons ) |
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ZachariasTheEverliving
Joined: May 23, 2011
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  Posted:
Jun 20, 2011 - 03:24 |
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