Hovring
Joined: Oct 29, 2003
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 Posted:
May 08, 2020 - 10:26 |
 
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Rationale:
To make fend more interesting I suggest letting fend counter claw.
For example it could balance a high TR orc vs chaos game. Orcs might not have it on all players, but if they could field a LoS with block/fend it would be an improvement and only fair.
Having fend on all players would usually not be the case, so the claw/mb blitzes would still be quite strong.
What do you think? |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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May 08, 2020 - 10:35 |
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No.
Claw is fine. The "high TR" games you talk of should be balanced by seasonal rebuys limiting the number of clawmb players on a chaos team (or limiting the number of essential skills should a coach simply frontload them). |
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Mattius
Joined: Sep 03, 2006
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May 08, 2020 - 11:50 |
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I've always thought the balance for claw is mutations going back to doubles. 10k more and chaos/nurgle having to really make harder team development decisions.
In table top, clearly it's not so bad due to seasons etc, as AD mentioned. |
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SzieberthAdam
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
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May 08, 2020 - 12:06 |
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Why to nerf Claws with attrition rate this low? There are so many legends you might only know the ones over 1000 SPPs. This was better in the LRB4 days. I would rather buff DP, rename and move current Claws to Armor Piercing, Agility. Plus I would make the Mutation Claws the old Razor Sharp Claws. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 08, 2020 - 13:15 |
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I'd nerf Claw either making it reduce the AV to 8 and allowing the stacking with MB or making it reduce the AV to 7 but not allowing the stacking with MB.
The fact that attrition is low is not a good reason to keep Claw as it is.
When playing vs Clawmb at high TV few blocks can change a game and no matter how good you play, you are going to suffer at least 1 Clawmb Blitz per turn.
Attrition should be generated by quantity of blocks (with or without MB, but not with Clawmb), not by the quality of few hits with Clawmb, because the former is more likely to stick to the expected average (more hits means better distribution).
Also, the low attrition doesn't consider the KOs.
Who cares if my Orc or Dwarf team has no permanent injuries when I have lost a game due to 2-3 players getting KO by Clawmb early in the game?
I'd like Ageing again (a smart Ageing, not the LRB4 Ageing where a player could age at first skill up, but starting at 31 or 51 SPPs, for example) or at least Seasons and a better Apo (2+ like in the past, BH not automatically healed).
I don't care about preserving players, but I do care about 1 hour-long game being ruined by the swinging randomness of Clawmb Blitzs. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 08, 2020 - 14:01 |
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C3I2
Joined: Feb 08, 2005
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May 08, 2020 - 14:20 |
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We all know the high chaos wont play woodies, and the high dwarf wont play claw heavy teams. For physical league play, I suspect I will see a tendency for WOs in some of those match-ups as well. |
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Hovring
Joined: Oct 29, 2003
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May 16, 2020 - 17:49 |
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I like the idea of seasonal rebuys limiting for leagues, but I don't think it fixes high TR / high AV games in blackbox.
Moving M or even S (not both) to double for beastmen or not letting claw stack with MB would weaken claw, but perhaps too much and do nothing for the fend skill.
My suggestion was also to make fend a little more interesting in a way that goes well with the actual skill, hence "you fend of the claw". |
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NickNutria
Joined: Jul 25, 2006
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May 16, 2020 - 18:35 |
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Claw without mb isn't that strong, at high TV chaos might kill orcs/dwarfs, but that isn't bad as orcs/dwarfs kill the agility teams. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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May 16, 2020 - 18:37 |
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Fend is fine, claw is fine. Really unnecessary.
Balancing for high TRs outside the actual intended confines of the game is somewhat arbitrary. |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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May 16, 2020 - 19:41 |
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The problem was never Claw (or PO), the problem has always been MB, and how it interacts with Claw (and PO). MB vs AV7 is too strong for the minimal skill picks required. Killstacks need to be spread around to all races to varying degrees, not just to a select few. Claw is important to game balance. Fend-counters-Claw is an interesting idea but it is a patch, not a fix. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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May 16, 2020 - 21:07 |
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MB vs AV7 isn't too strong. Pricing issues that allow for relatively cheap spamming of MB AND allow for relatively cheap spamming of Agi 4 which requires SOME kind of counter, and the historic cry has always been 'but agi 4 splats easy', which inherently requires that spamming of MB in order to 'counter' Agi 4 (which it doesn't relaly do) is the problem.
Fix inherent pricing issues with high agi (and potentially with high MA, but I think that's quite a bit more controversial and may never happen), and you could fix pricing issues with MB, in particular, spamming S access, which would allow you to fix spamming MB, which would reduce how often MB stacks with skills like C and PO. |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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May 16, 2020 - 21:31 |
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Agree that AG4 is another imbalance. RR on 2+ is way better than RR on 3+. What if RRs were always 3+ no matter what?
"Pricing issues" is the same thing as saying MB/AG4 are too strong for the cost, so we agree there, too.
How bout addressing imbalances with fixes rather than ham-fisted counters.
I miss these threads. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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May 16, 2020 - 21:33 |
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exactly. if you're interested Fidius, the start of my fix solution is here https://fumbbl.com/p/group&group=12181&op=view
I'm trying to get more people with experience at a wider array of teams than I have to help provide feedback. |
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Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
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May 16, 2020 - 21:39 |
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Actually, I am rather happy with the game how it is today thank you. Please never change anything again.
Except give SPP of cas through foul. That would be epic. But that is a topic for another thread. |
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