Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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 Posted:
Jun 04, 2025 - 17:18 |
 
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| Chingis wrote: | | Drrek wrote: | | Vampires are overtuned, and in my opinion, not fun. That's subjective, I know, but I really don't enjoy playing games they are in. |
If the runners were ST3 AG4 and the Throwers and Blitzers were ST4 AG3 (instead of ST4 AG4) would that be more interesting perhaps? They'd still be somewhat better at moving around than other AG3 teams because of Hypno-gaze. |
Honestly, I just think mass hypno-gaze breaks the rules of the game in a way that I don't think is fun |
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Carthage
Joined: Mar 18, 2021
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Jun 04, 2025 - 17:38 |
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Could make it so doing a hypnogaze boneheads you afterwards. Fluff-wise you are locked eyes with the target and controlling them so you can't turn to block or catch someone running by.
You still get the big salvo turn that the team is clearly based on, but you won't have the "might as well hypno since I have to move anyways". Vamps will have to have a clear plan to recover a sack too because all their players being boneheaded means its easy to recover the ball. |
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daniel7582
Joined: Feb 01, 2020
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Jun 04, 2025 - 19:42 |
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Major complaints:
None, most everything is in a great spot. The frequent FAQs have been great, and I think the game is in the best place it has been in in my blood bowl career.
Minor Complaints:
General:
Many skills and positionals are fairly useless and almost never get taken. Some of these could be tweaked to be more appealing without causing major impacts.
Amazons: Not super fun to play against at low TV, especially if you are a team that starts with no block or tackle. I recently played a tabletop match where I knocked down two players all game (a lot of other things went wrong during this match, but its hard for anything to right when you can't knock anyone over.)
Suggestions: I like the drunkard skill on the Norse, as way to tune a very strong lineman, potentially something like that for the amazon linewoman, or increase the costs of some of the very powerful positionals.
Norse: Have become a very min-maxy team. It seems the optimal strategy is to ignore some of the positionals (berserkers) since the linemen and beer boars are such incredible value. I like the addition of drunkard to try to balance it out, but I think the thick skull along with it makes it a net positive compared to the last edition.
Suggestions: Find a way to slightly nerf the linemen without killing the team. Could be removing the thick skull or making the drunkard trait worse. Off the top of my head it could be, kegs don't work on KOed players with drunkard and possibly pick me up requiring a 6+ on them. The berserker should also be more appealing to use relative to the linemen and ulfs. Off the top of my head, they should be the positional with thick skull instead. I think they are a strong positional and would be an easy buy on most other teams.
Vampires: I generally love the team and the new specialized positionals are great, but agree with the complaints about them at high team value.
Suggestions: It would be nice to see them tweaked without becoming near stunty teir again. Two biggest things that make this team so good at high TV are the strength and reliability of hypnogaze (compared to the old 3+ and no lost skills on tacklezones). Options here are probably to make the hypnogaze a 3+ on some of the positionals, dial back the runner speed or make it more expensive and potentially to increase the reroll cost back to 70k.
Nitpicks:
I have other small issues with teams, which I overall love to play as, so its hard to call those complaints. Biggest things are the cost imperial nobility and weakened/loner dwarfs on the OWA.
I am not a fan of the protracted offense with elf teams and skaven teams, but I don't think that changes need to be done to make it weaker, just lower the necessity of it. I've played games where I felt that moving my defense would put me out of position to stop it, but the skaven coach had no incentive to move the ball up the field, so we just ended turns back and forth several times. Not super fun to play against, and I'd be annoyed if I drove across town and played a match like that on tabletop. Not sure what to do about it and its not a super common stategy, but I also don't think thats the game anyone showed up to play.
Gutter runners should automatically die any time I knock one down. Alive gutter runners is not the game anyone showed up to play.
OWA and humans should swap the number of halflings they can hire. |
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moph
Joined: Sep 16, 2020
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Jun 04, 2025 - 19:51 |
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I dislike animals on the pitch.
And the discrimination against geese and badgers not being counted as players. |
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daniel7582
Joined: Feb 01, 2020
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Jun 04, 2025 - 21:17 |
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To add to my previous post, I do really like the addition on of the passing stat, but I think there also needs to be some incentive to passing the ball over handing the ball off then running down field. This would probably rock the boat too much but the idea I've had for a while is to give the target player a number of free moves equal to the negative modifier caused by distance. |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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Jun 04, 2025 - 21:23 |
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| daniel7582 wrote: | | To add to my previous post, I do really like the addition on of the passing stat, but I think there also needs to be some incentive to passing the ball over handing the ball off then running down field. This would probably rock the boat too much but the idea I've had for a while is to give the target player a number of free moves equal to the negative modifier caused by distance. |
Well yes it would rock the boat too much because that would just make 1 turning too easy. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jun 04, 2025 - 21:28 |
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I have an idea for passing.
1) scatter always has a value, an integer between 2 and 5. If it would go below 2, it's 2, above 5 is 5. This is the number of times the ball is moved with the scatter die.
2) anything with hands has a PA of 6+ or better.
2a) Most 5+ are 4+ now. High Elf linos, at least, are 3+.
2b) you can't pass if range alone would make it worse than 6+.
3) when you pass, 6 is accurate; if not, modify for enemy zones: 1- is fumble.
3a) if neither 6 or fumble, apply other mods, check vs. PA for accuracy.
3b) if inaccurate, scatter = margin of failure +1 (max 5).
Way better than Wildly Inaccurate and Golems who can't shovel a QP, non? Also, now PA3+ means something, as you can try a long bomb. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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Jopotzuki
Joined: Oct 07, 2011
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Jun 04, 2025 - 21:59 |
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Gnomes |
_________________
| Kam wrote: | | My Flings also disappear when they're blocked... I knew that was a bug! |
| ThierryM wrote: | | CR... The synonym of E-Penis right ? |
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daniel7582
Joined: Feb 01, 2020
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Jun 04, 2025 - 21:59 |
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| Drrek wrote: | | daniel7582 wrote: | | To add to my previous post, I do really like the addition on of the passing stat, but I think there also needs to be some incentive to passing the ball over handing the ball off then running down field. This would probably rock the boat too much but the idea I've had for a while is to give the target player a number of free moves equal to the negative modifier caused by distance. |
Well yes it would rock the boat too much because that would just make 1 turning too easy. |
For the teams that can already do it, yes, so you'd need to find a way to balance it out, but then again, many of those teams can arguably already one team too reliably to the point where this may not actually make a one turn as skaven more reliable( assuming skaven have a couple of skills). Haven't done the math on this though.
I also don't think it would a bad idea to give teams that currently have little to no chance of a one-turn some chance of pulling one off so that they can compete with teams that already have very reliable one turn scores. Having a gutter runner than can score in one turn by moving one square (with sprint) is a massive advantage and can lead to a coach just not playing defense and playing for the one turn. I don't think this is necessarily a problem but other teams should at least have a non-zero chance to respond to being down 2-1 should the opponent also score on turn 8 that isn't "hope for the clock to roll back".
For example, is it a huge problem for the game dwarves can now attempt a play that is:
push 6 movement runner up two squares, 2+2+ to gfi him into range, 3++(pick up), 6+ pass (if you are even in range of the endzone), 4+or5+ dodge to get the dwarf into the endzone to catch, and another 4or5+ to actually catch the ball.
I don't think that would be a problem, and would have the secondary effect of making a lot of dead skills like diving catch and hail mary pass more useful.
The bigger point is that passing is just worse than a hand-off 9 times out of 10.
* generally, risk of a failed pass puts you in a much worse position than handing it off
* doubles the amount of dice that you need to throw
* generally leaves the thrower in a worse position than if they had handed it off
I don't think tweaking the difficulty of a pass or even removing wildly inaccurate altogether fix any of these issues |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Jun 04, 2025 - 22:02 |
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| daniel7582 wrote: | | I am not a fan of the protracted offense with elf teams and skaven teams, but I don't think that changes need to be done to make it weaker, just lower the necessity of it. [...] |
At a kind of bird's-eye, isn't this just one facet of a wider thing which includes clock management and stalling out halves in different ways?
I wonder if the kind of high level game design answer to this would have to be to shift the balance between the power of fighty actions and agility/ball-handling actions? To stop this sort of thing, don't you have to change the incentive, and isn't the only way to do this to make defensive turtling less reliable? If you're more likely to get infiltrated and sacked, you're more likely to just score while you can. And if you know you can more easily infiltrate and turnover the enemy formation, you've more incentive to score early and push for a second one when the opponent receives the ball.
As a thought experiment: let's say fighty things stayed the same everyone got a one-pip improvement in agility and ball-handling things, so that humans now acted like elves, and elves were improved to be as good within an enemy tackle zone as they currently are unmarked, how would things change? I'm not sure, just thinking out loud. I don't know how you'd alter the incentives on clock management without changing the in-posession/out-of-posession power balance between the two teams in some way. |
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daniel7582
Joined: Feb 01, 2020
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Jun 04, 2025 - 22:40 |
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| Chingis wrote: |
At a kind of bird's-eye, isn't this just one facet of a wider thing which includes clock management and stalling out halves in different ways?
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I don't really think the protracted offense should be targeted directly by any changes to the game. Its a tool and strategy that more agile teams can use to manage clock and preserve their players, and its not without its risk. Playing against it sometimes is interesting and is a new and different problem to try to solve in a match, but playing against too frequently can be annoying.
I don't coach skaven or elves very often, but the argument made to me is that the protracted offense exists largely out of necessity so that you can field a team the next half. Making skaven and elves more durable probably isn't the answer, and a lot of other solutions for this would be much to large an impact for something that is largely only an issue in specific matchups, so it might just be "tomb kings must suffer" for the time being |
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Baron-Greenback
Joined: Sep 30, 2022
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Jun 04, 2025 - 22:40 |
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I don't think blorcs should have their MA increased, they are meant to be slow (and they are my favourite team), but their win rate shows they could do with a buff somehow to increase their win rate.
Choices include:
- 2 Blorc Blitzers - MA5 Juggernaut (Ag 3+ probably too much)
- Thick skull all blorcs
- A buff to either brawler or grab - so brawler might allow a skull rr instead of a both down for example, or option for both down to either rr or be a push a bit like juggernaut (would drastically reduce turnovers for them)
- Sure hands should be available in Agility (I stole this from MattDakka). Would benefit all stunty teams and lizards as well, but blorcs in particular as a deep kick and a failed pickup and you're in real trouble |
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Baron-Greenback
Joined: Sep 30, 2022
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Jun 04, 2025 - 22:42 |
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Yes zons are a bit over powered, in part the linewomen though the blockers are the big problem to face. Giving them AG4+ would make a noticeable difference. |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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| Posted:
Jun 04, 2025 - 22:51 |
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| Baron-Greenback wrote: |
- Sure hands should be available in Agility (I stole this from MattDakka). Would benefit all stunty teams and lizards as well, but blorcs in particular as a deep kick and a failed pickup and you're in real trouble |
I've been of the opinion for a while that sure hands should be a passing skill. |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Jun 04, 2025 - 23:13 |
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| Baron-Greenback wrote: | | Yes zons are a bit over powered, in part the linewomen though the blockers are the big problem to face. Giving them AG4+ would make a noticeable difference. |
What if the Blockers and Blitzers didn't have Dodge, so that (especially in out-of-the-box games) an opponent always has a few people in the Amazon team they can try and hit that's not a 1/6?
Maybe the Blitzers could have Wrestle (pairs nicely with Jump Up) and the Blockers Block instead of Dodge? The Blitzers can still get Dodge as a first skill and have the combo, and it'll cost the Blockers a secondary to do so. So slightly nerfed Blockers and Blitzers go sideways to become worse ball-carriers but more dedicated blitzers instead? |
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