MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
Aug 11, 2025 - 16:25 |
 
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| Garion wrote: | | I've never seen a forum page with so many wrong statements stated as fact ... |
You are the Keeper of the Right Statements? Sorry, I didn't know it!
| Garion wrote: | Your rule of 11 will just mean every coach will foul every single turn of the game if they get 11 players back every drive....
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Just don't allow ejected-for-fouling-players to be replaced by the 2nd Half fillers. Also, the players are not back every drive, the fillers are added only at the start of 2nd Half. If a drive ends before 2nd Half starts, they are not added. Until the end of Half 1 turn 8 only rostered reserves can be fielded.
| Garion wrote: |
Als Why don't you write your rules up in one place and then you can just link to them rather than scatter bits of them across every forum page that are near impossible for people to follow? |
My rules are already written on my About page.
This thread was supposed to talk about my anti-deep stalling house rule.
It wasn't me starting talking about Cricket and derailing the thread.
I started talking about the fillers because you wrote this:
"It makes teams that have suffered heavy attrition but are receiving 2nd half really vulnerable. Managing to cling on to a 1-0 lead when you only have 5 players is a real skill... if you can't retreat into your own half then you're screwed."
You talked about teams that have suffered heavy attrition and are receiving 2nd half, so I replied talking about the 2nd fillers house rule, because the two things are related.
Making a single thread to talk about all my house rules would not be practical. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 11, 2025 - 16:51 |
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The problem is though dakka. Every time anyone criticises anything you say. You then reply about another rule you've invented. Then that gets criticised and you reference another rule you've created.
There's no way to discuss one of your rules without discussing all of them... so to save your time any everyone else's I think you'd be better off writing all ypur rules in a pdf so it's easy to digest everything as a whole.
For example you've just had 2 criticisms about your rule of 11 and we now find out that you also have a rule where there is no such thing as reserves anymore. And then we find out that if a player is sent off you can only field 10 players for drive 2...
I'm trying to help you here... but you seem to take everything as an attack...
For example above I'm commenting above that you keep presenting opinions as absolute fact...
Such as on the previous page... you need to qualify your opinions as there's very little to support your arguments |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 11, 2025 - 17:01 |
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I made a thread exactly to discuss the rule and improve it according to criticism and objections.
Well, when you dismiss other people's ideas as "wrong statements" I don't think it's not an attack, but maybe it's me and just my own particular impression. In that case, just ignore all.
I have played thousands of games and I'm not exactly a guy who started playing BB yesterday, there is a slim chance that I might have some reasons and experience backing up my silly house rules. They might be wrong but at least I'm trying. People criticizing my ideas don't offer alternatives, they just say my ideas are pish posh.
I don't think that people would spend their drives fouling relying on fillers only, without rostered reserves, because the teams needing reserves often are not the ones fouling a lot (there are exceptions, such as Stunty teams, but they are not super performing teams). Moreover, too much fouling can lead to being out of position to attack/defend. Last, but not least, my own Injury table makes fouling a bit less effective.
If that's your concern (i.e. fouling every turn relying on fillers to replace the banned players), it's easy to fix it by not allowing the fillers to replace banned players.
I don't think that fix is needed because fillers work both ways: they can replace banned players, but they can replace injured players too. So, if you foul and remove some players, these players will be replaced at start of 2nd Half. It will never be a 2nd Half start 11 vs 6, like happens now without the fillers. It would be an improvement, I think.
I don't think I don't have a constructive attitude about your feedback. I didn't say: "You are wrong", I said: "if your concern is this, you could do that".
I never said that "there are no reserves anymore", but they are not needed, if you want to rely on fillers only.
If you want to replace players during Half 1 or Half 2 (after Half 2 started and a drive ended during Half 2) then you need your own rostered reserves.
So, it's a coach's decision. You can decide to play with 11-Elf roster or 13-Elf roster.
Sometimes though, you can't even decide to play with reserves, due to lack of gold/starting team, hence my filler rule.
It's a flexible system.
Anyway, if you think it sucks, I respect your opinion.
If I didn't want feedback I would not be posting on a forum, after all. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 11, 2025 - 17:56 |
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Okay, I'll try and break it down for you and please try and absorb what I'm writing, it's not an attack!
| MattDakka wrote: | | I made a thread exactly to discuss the rule and improve it according to criticism and objections. |
Understood, and some people have been rude, other people have tried to point out flaws in your suggestions as they see it. When it's the later that is generally people trying to have a proper discussion. As I have mentioned twice the original point of this thread is your Anti Deep Stall rule. This then split in to criticisms of about 4 other rules you have in your version of the game. This is why I think your time would be much better spent creating a document with all your rules clearly laid out, then your overall vision for the game might make more sense to people
| MattDakka wrote: |
Well, when you dismiss other people's ideas as "wrong statements" I don't think it's not an attack, but maybe it's me and just my own particular impression. In that case, just ignore all. |
The problem here is ^ you make statements like they are fact and I'm not sure there is even a consensus on a lot of things you say are problems... A good example is this thread... it's for an Anti Deep Stalling rule. I am yet to see that deep stalling is even a good tactic. Unless you are holding on to a narrow win and fighting an uphill battle, and retreat in to your half. But the way you Deep stall in turn 1 of the game... I think that just reduces in game choices for half of a half. I think better coaches can achieve more by playing the game higher up the pitch... so your central conceit is flawed imo. So do we really need a rule for this? Why clog the game up with rules bloat for a problem that doesn't exist outside of playing vs you.
Here is another example of you stating something as fact, when I'm not convinced there is any truth in it... I'm just pointing at it as an example:
| MattDakka wrote: |
That means that the TV bloat coming from reserves is 0, thus improving the balance of match-ups. |
So in this example you are saying there should be no such thing as reserves, because they mess with balance, and they are TV bloat...
But have you considered that teams with cheap linemen have cheap linemen exactly so that reserves aren't such a tax? By removing reserves from the TV and Team Building equation you are massively impacting how effective some teams are. For example stunties are much worse at fouling in your rules. The reason they are good at fouling currently is because you are theoretically trading a 30k ish player for a 50k+ player, and they likely carry extra reserves. Similarly Elves are intentionally expensive and having a bench is expensive, which is an intended part of the games design. Elves can run rings round their opposition. The hard part with elves is maintaining good numbers on the pitch throughout the game. So not only does your rule have MASSIVE consequences.. Your statement above is said like it's a Fact. When its at the very least questionable as to whether your statement has any validity at all.
| MattDakka wrote: |
I have played thousands of games and I'm not exactly a guy who started playing BB yesterday, there is a slim chance that I might have some reasons and experience backing up my silly house rules. They might be wrong but at least I'm trying. People criticizing my ideas don't offer alternatives, they just say my ideas are pish posh. |
Not true. There are numerous alternatives mentioned in this thread. Some people aren't engaging with you, some are....
| MattDakka wrote: |
I don't think that people would spend their drives fouling relying on fillers, because the teams needing reserves often are not the ones fouling a lot (there are exceptions, such as Stunty teams, but they are not super performing teams). Moreover, too much fouling can lead to being out of position to attack/defend. Last, but not least, my own Injury table makes fouling a bit less effective.
If that's your concern (i.e. fouling every turn relying on fillers to replace the banned players), it's easy to fix it by not allowing the fillers to replace banned players.
Give it a try.. but I think if both coaches were guaranteed 11 players. Then a linemen would foul an opposing posit
Let's not forget that fillers work both ways: they can replace banned players, but they can replace injured players too. So, if you foul and remove some players, these players will be replaced at start of 2nd Half. It will never be a 2nd Half start 11 vs 6, like happens now without the fillers. It would be an improvement, I think.
I don't think I don't have a constructive attitude about your feedback. I didn't say: "You are wrong", I said: "if your concern is this, you could do that".
If a team needs reserves it's because, often, it has been outbashed.
I never said that "there are no reserves anymore", but they are not needed, if you want to rely on fillers.
If you want to replace players during Half 1 or Half 2 (after Half 2 started and a drive ended) then you need your own rostered reserves.
So, it's a coach's decision. You can decide to play with 11-Elf roster or 13-Elf roster.
Sometimes though, you can't even decide to play with reserves, due to lack of gold/starting team, hence my filler rule.
It's a flexible system.
Anyway, if you think it sucks, I respect your opinion.
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I don't even think I understand your rule of 11 any more... as you've said a few different things in this thread that seem contrary to each other I think you need to write out your rules in a very clear concise way... Formatted with all the rules that stem from your core idea in the same place. Once you have all your rules written then it might be worth review, and I'd happily annotate it.
and yeah I do think it sucks, I think it detracts from the game in many ways which I have outlined, I think it has a huge impact on balance too. And I think you could come up with a better rubber band mechanic for extreme tilt games, that happens in game. Rather than create a rule that completely changes the game and how it has been played since 1994. Because the worst parts of extreme tilt in this game (which are rare) is when it makes a whole drive redundant. Your rule of 11 is not fixing this. |
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Last edited by Garion on Aug 11, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Aug 11, 2025 - 18:01 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | People criticizing my ideas don't offer alternatives, they just say my ideas are pish posh. |
Some people won't agree that the problems that you are trying to are even really problems. |
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Summer Sprint Season. 1st Aug - 14th Sept. Open/Gamefinder play
Last edited by koadah on Aug 11, 2025; edited 1 time in total |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 11, 2025 - 18:22 |
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| Garion wrote: |
I am yet to see that deep stalling is even a good tactic. |
Elyod uses deep stalling often in his games. I don't think such a top coach would use a bad tactic.
It can fail, sure, but I think that it's a very good tactic to minimize damage suffer and to delay the score.
| Garion wrote: |
So do we really need a rule for this? Why clog the game up with rules bloat for a problem that doesn't exist outside of playing vs you. |
Yes, I think we need some anti-stalling rule (mind, not necessarily my rule, that could be improved, but I had to start somewhere, to stimulate a discussion about it).
Why? Deep stalling makes for a boring game, but, on the other hand, it's a necessary evil, with certain teams.
It makes harder to play for the win as well.
| Garion wrote: |
But have you considered that teams with cheap linemen have cheap linemen exactly so that reserves aren't such a tax? |
Having cheap Linemen doesn't help when they are removed quicky from the pitch. You can have lots of cheap Linemen in the Reserves Box, but that won't prevent your team from being outnumbered while playing a drive. Then scoring or defending gets hard, if not impossible. I saw and see lots of teams outnumbered even with reserves, just because they failed the KO rolls. It's not that unlikely.
| Garion wrote: | | For example stunties are much worse at fouling in your rules. |
Stunties have more chances to stay on the pitch, with a nerfed Injury Table, and a team such as Goblins would start 2nd Half with 11 players, which doesn't happens often, with the Secret Weapons ban. Also, they could foul less effectively, but on the other hand the fillers would replace the banned players.
| Garion wrote: | | Similarly Elves are intentionally expensive and having a bench is expensive, which is an intended part of the games design. |
I know but, as I said, having a bench won't prevent them from being outnumbered while a drive is played or even starting the 2nd Half with 11 players. The more Elves you have on reserve, the higher their TV is, and more counter-skills such as Tackle and Mighty Blow will be against them.
| Garion wrote: | | Elves can run rings round their opposition. The hard part with elves is maintaining good numbers on the pitch throughout the game. |
I know that, I play a lot as Elves, but Elves used to pass the ball with every player better than on a 4+, that helped when they were outnumbered. Also, they are terribly expensive to re-draft, that means that the early games on new season are a pain to play. Considering that their passing has been nerfed, I think that every Elf is expensive by 5k. Anyway, even by running around the opposition, and this may work on offence if you start with a decent number of Elves, the problem is defending with terribly outnumbered Elves. You can't defend by running rings round the attacking teams and sacking is not an option.
This is my filler rule:
"After all the KO and Regeneration rolls have been made and before the 2nd Half (and Overtime) starts, if either team can't deploy 11 players, normal (not positional) journeymen fillers are added up in order to field 11 players on the pitch."
What do you find unclear? I'm not a native English speaker, but it sounds clear and concise to me.
I'll try explaining it better step by step:
1) Half 1, turn 1-8: no fillers allowed to replace players out, only rostered reserves;
2) End of Half 1;
3) KO recovery rolls: if, after the rolls, either team can't set up 11 rostered players, loner 4+ journeymen fillers are added up to 11;
4) Start of Half 2;
5) Half 2, turn 1-8: no fillers allowed to replace players out, only rostered reserves;
6) End of Half 2.
If Overtime must be played:
7) KO recovery rolls: if, after the rolls, either team can't set up 11 rostered players, loner 4+ journeymen are addedp up to 11.
8 ) Overtime, turn 1-8: no fillers allowed to replace players out, only rostered reserves. |
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