Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 16, 2025 - 07:51 |
 
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I'm not saying clock management is a problem. I'm saying that is the game largely and thats a great thing. Risk management and clock management. They're a direct result of the introduction of the turn over mechanic. Which is what made this game soo much better in its evolution from 2nd to 3rd Ed, and ultimately where all the games strategy comes from. Stalling does not need to be "fixed". Any methods to try a different "fix" it would be catastrophic for the game. You may as well play dungeon bowl if you don't like deep strategy...
As for IGMEOY. I agree that should never have been removed... it has anti tilt built into it. It could've been improved to make consecutive fouls more likely to be seen... bit yeah. That was an amazing rule. |
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sebco
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
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Aug 16, 2025 - 09:48 |
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Being sent off on a double on armour roll or injury roll is a simple and good mechanic which has to be kept, in my opinion.
To both keep this double mechanic and have IGMEOY principle back (more risk to be sent off when a team make consecutive fouls), a solution could be to throw 1D6 for IGMEOY ref (only on armour roll at 2nd consecutive foul, then on armour roll and injury roll at 3rd consecutive foul?).
For example, if armour roll is 2 + 6 and ref roll is 2, let's consider there is a double 2 and player is ejected. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 16, 2025 - 11:14 |
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Hmm I'm not sure. Doubles is straight forward and that simplicity is nice. But is rolling a ref dice 1d6 really so complicated? Especially as its the other coach rolling, not the one doing the Foul... |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 16, 2025 - 11:39 |
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WIth the 2D6 double mechanic the chance to be banned for a Stun is the same as for a Casualty.
That doesn't make sense, hence my house rule.
In sports, as far as I know, there is some correlation between the entity of a foul and the ban/warning by the referee.
In BB there is no yellow card and red card (so, for example, failing to break the AV when fouling could be a yellow card, while a straight Injury could be a red card), so I thought it was good, at least, to have a more realistic Referee banning rule when fouling.
I agree that simplicity of 2d6 is great, but it doesn't represent the differences of fouling damage dealt. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 16, 2025 - 11:56 |
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Does the severity of a Foul correspond to being caught more often...
E.g Zidane headbutted an Italian in the world cup final.. the ref didn't see it. He would've got away with it if there wasn't a 4th official.
I under your brain thinks of things this way, and you see that logic and wants these patterns. But I'm not convinced there is truly a correlation there. Not a criticism of you, but you have a few rules like this where you just think it makes more sense logically...
Whereas there is a more clearn patter with persistent cheating being spotted more easily.. e.g. in football players are often given the benefit of doubt for a first Foul, but then 2nd or 3rd results in a yellow or red card...
In short I think there's not only better mechanics provided by igmeoy, but also lore wise and logic wise I think it's stronger.
And I think your fouling rules are decent... they just aren't as good as an improved IGMEOY |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 16, 2025 - 12:17 |
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Fair enough. If IGMEOY were added again to the official rules it would be surely an improvement for the game.
For my own BB variant I prefer my rule, for the tighter correlation it has between actual damage and spotting chance.
About realism: well, if we want to talk about realism and Referee and other officials not seeing a foul, IGMEOY is less realistic than my spotting rule, because IGMEOY always "senses" a foul and changes the roll (the IGMEOY changes from 6+ to 4+ after the first foul). It's a bit like the Refeeree had an All-Seeing Eye, because the first and the second foul are always sensed with the same rolls, regardless their severity.
So, after the first foul the % of being spotted always changes from 16.66% to 50%.
With my rule every foul has the same % of being spotted, assuming the same damage dealt, but it changes accordingly to the damage.
If, for example, a Goblin fouls twice with IGMEOY rule, the second foul will be spotted on a 4+, no matter if it was a failed AV break, a Stun or a Kill.
With my rule a Goblin fouling twice would not be always spotted on a 4+. It could be twice 6+ in case of no AV break, or 6+ if no AV broken and 3+ if Casualty, or 5+ if Stun.
IGMEOY is a bit dull and flat as mechanic.
With my fouling spotting rule (I quote you again here):
"there are more variables/ more scenarios" (your words some posts ago). |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 16, 2025 - 19:11 |
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Another anti-stalling idea, instead of the thrown rock, an enchanted teleporting ball (inspired by the special balls house rules I posted in another thread):
The ball has been enchanted by the stadium's Wizard to make stalling less boring for the crowd to watch.
If a player carrying the ball can score without rolling any dice (note: Bloodlust roll doesn't count) and refrains from it, roll a D6 at the end of that turn: on a 6 the ball teleports itself and the ball carrier D3 squares in a random direction (roll a D8 square by square). If the final square is occupied by a player, they are knocked down and placed in a random adjacent square to the square now occupied by the ball carrier, who is knocked down as well. The ball will scatter from there. If the player gets teleported out of bounds they will be injured by the crowd and the ball will be thrown in. If the final square is empty, the ball carrier will appear there standing.
The ball doesn't teleport when lying on the pitch, but only when held by a player able to score without rolling any dice.
I'm thinking about the D6 roll required to trigger the teleport: it could be either 6 or 5+ every turn or incremental 6, 5+, 4+. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 18, 2025 - 02:57 |
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Another idea, we have seen football/soccer become stricter with time wasting, right?
So, it would fit the fluff i.e. the fans don't want to see pamby namby elves stall a score, to have a ref penalise the stalling player (the ball carrier).
What about something like "If the player with the ball has a clear route to the TD line, but refuses to move the full pace of the slowest member of the team on the field towards the line or score if within movement distance. The referee may call for time wasting. The first role is a 1d6, but with +1 increments per turn of stalling after that".
One counter point to this though and has happened on the site. Is teams allowing the opposing team to score, not putting up a defence. In the knowledge that they have enough time to score that half and then attempt a slower score in the second half, thus winning it 2-1 with a lot of clock management, which isn't stalling.
With that in mind, trying to rule on stalling is too much of a can of worms, in my opinion.
Elves stall by getting to the goal line in 3 and spending 4 turns not scoring. Dwarfs deliberately take 8 turns to get to the goal line when they could have done it in 5. However, it isn't as obvious or blatant as goal-line stalling. |
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Brutus-Dagon
Joined: Feb 16, 2024
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Aug 18, 2025 - 09:14 |
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If the ball carrier hasnt moved for a turn, the crowd throws a snotling at him, deviating from BCs position. The snotling plays for neither team, but has a TZ and can be blocked/blitzed by both teams. The snotling will stand up when proned at the end of any turn. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 18, 2025 - 11:14 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: |
What about something like "If the player with the ball has a clear route to the TD line, but refuses to move the full pace of the slowest member of the team on the field towards the line or score if within movement distance. The referee may call for time wasting. The first role is a 1d6, but with +1 increments per turn of stalling after that".
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What happens if the roll is successful? What kind of penalty?
| harvestmouse wrote: |
One counter point to this though and has happened on the site. Is teams allowing the opposing team to score, not putting up a defence. In the knowledge that they have enough time to score that half and then attempt a slower score in the second half, thus winning it 2-1 with a lot of clock management, which isn't stalling. |
Not putting up a defence is currently possible, so, there would be no difference, but stalling would be harder.
It would be an improvement. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 18, 2025 - 19:21 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: |
What about something like "If the player with the ball has a clear route to the TD line, but refuses to move the full pace of the slowest member of the team on the field towards the line or score if within movement distance. The referee may call for time wasting. The first role is a 1d6, but with +1 increments per turn of stalling after that".
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What happens if the roll is successful? What kind of penalty?
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OFF!!!! With a ball scatter. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 18, 2025 - 19:39 |
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What about Stunned with ball scatter (the player is bashed by the Ref)? Sent off seems too harsh. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Aug 18, 2025 - 21:13 |
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What if when opponent stalls and you feel its unfair, you can just pull another ball from under your shirt and go score a TD yourself and end the drive that way.
That sounds good imo |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 18, 2025 - 22:19 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | What about Stunned with ball scatter (the player is bashed by the Ref)? Sent off seems too harsh. |
Or...(and this is when you know a rule is wrong, as the wording gets too complicated).
If the ref penalizes a team for stalling. A 'send off' role is made before the start of your (the stalling team) 'next' turn. If failed the player is sent off.
Then the stalling team has the opportunity to recover it. |
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