Zug
Joined: Jan 17, 2006
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 Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 17:43 |
 
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Bored at work, I have decided to pick up a pet project I have always thought about - as I'm sure many of you have as well: Catagorizing the official races as well as possible, into more than just "bashy" and "agile".
My initial thoughts on catagories isn't a stretch: Bashy, Balanced, Agile, and Stunty. But of course some teams are hard to confine to one catagory, and instead of just having two catagories (bashy-balanced) it would be even more descriptive to have a Primary and Secondary catagory i.e., BASHY-balanced is slightly more bashy and less balanced than BALANCED-bashy.
For example, I would probably call Orcs BASHY-balanced, since they can still throw the ball with moderate success when facing teams more bashy than themselves, but are still more bashy than balanced.
Some teams will still only have one catagory, i.e. Wood Elves=AGILE-agile.
So given those guidelines, I thought it would be fun to tap in to the vast experience of the FUMBBL community and get some help from everyone. Any takers? 
Here's a list for you to copy and paste:
Races
Amazon
Chaos
Chaos Dwarf
Dark Elf
Dwarf
Elf
Goblin
Halfling
High Elf
Human
Khemri
Lizardmen
Necromantic
Norse
Nurgle's Rotters
Ogre
Orc
Skaven
Undead
Vampire
Wood Elf
If you don't want to tackle the whole list, feel free to just add the races you are experienced with.
Once we have enough responses, I will compile them into a quasi-official list here in this first post.
Here is my initial list, but I don't have experience with every team so this is tentative:
Amazon BALANCED-agile
Chaos BASHY
Chaos Dwarf BASHY
Dark Elf AGILE-balanced
Dwarf BASHY
Elf AGILE
Goblin Stunty
Halfling Stunty
High Elf AGILE
Human BALANCED
Khemri BASHY
Lizardmen ?
Necromantic ?
Norse BALANCED-bashy
Nurgle's Rotters ?
Ogre BASHY-stunty
Orc BASHY-balanced
Skaven AGILE
Undead BASHY
Vampire ?
Wood Elf AGILE |
Last edited by Zug on %b %01, %2006 - %19:%Feb; edited 4 times in total |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Feb 01, 2006 - 18:00 |
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the biggest flaw in your categories is that it all depends on the matchup. Norse is a clear example: Norse are very bashy against (say) skaven. At almost any TR. But when they face Orcs they can't outbash them and their av7 becomes a nightmare. So they must rely on a more balanced play, and hit only where it is necessary instead of the good old "hit all the way" attitude.
This stands true for almost all races imho. Anyway here is how I see them:
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Ogre-Orc-Dorfs-ChaosDorfs-Chaos-Khemri-Rotters-Norse ----> BASHING
Human-Necro-Undead-Vampire-Lizardmen ----> BALANCED
Amazons-Skaven-WoodElves-Elves-HighElves-DarkElves ---->AGILE
Goblin-Halfling ---->STUNTY
****
Ogre Bashing
Orc-Bashing/Balanced
Dorfs-Bashing
ChaosDorfs-Bashing
Chaos-Bashing/Balanced
Khemri-Bashing
Rotters-Bashing
Norse Bashing/Balanced
Human-Balanced
Necro-Balanced/Bashing
Undead-Balanced/Bashing
Vampire-Balanced
Lizardmen- Balanced/Agile
Amazons-Agile/Bashing
Skaven-Agile/balanced
WoodElves-Agile
Elves-Agile
HighElves-Agile
DarkElves-Agile/Balanced
Goblin-Stunty
Halfling -Stunty |
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Last edited by JanMattys on %b %01, %2006 - %18:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Jan 26, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 18:00 |
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I'm actually more interested in what kind of "work" your doing.  |
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Zug
Joined: Jan 17, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 18:19 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | the biggest flaw in your categories is that it all depends on the matchup. Norse is a clear example: Norse are very bashy against (say) skaven. At almost any TR. But when they face Orcs they can't outbash them and their av7 becomes a nightmare. So they must rely on a more balanced play, and hit only where it is necessary instead of the good old "hit all the way" attitude.
This stands true for almost all races imho. |
You are right of course, but most races still have a dominant play style and that's all we can really catagorize - there will always be exceptions in specific scenarios. Also to clarify, the definition of Balanced should be teams that usually play bashy against agile opponents and agile against bashy - Norse being a great example of a Balanced team. I would probably call Norse BALANCED-bashy with all the inherent block skills.
| Farinroderel wrote: | | I'm actually more interested in what kind of "work" your doing. |
IT Project Manager - if I'm not in a meeting I have nothing to do...  |
Last edited by Zug on %b %01, %2006 - %19:%Feb; edited 3 times in total |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 18:19 |
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Hey! Nothing wrong with having a boring job! |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 18:33 |
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Norse are bashy-balanced. They 4 players with frenzy jumpup block and access to strenght skills, and they playstyle IMPOSES to block everything in sight, otherwise you're screwed. If the opponent is standing, he can block you. Norse never play agile. Even against orcs. They either block everything or carefully choose where to blitz a hole. But they never rely on agility, nor on dodges nor on speed to win games. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 18:46 |
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i simply base things on what sort of skill access they have...
ergo...(all excluding big guys)
Amazon - balanced (blitzer-GS, catcher-GA, thrower-GP, linewoman-G)
Chaos - bashy (chaos warrior-GSPh, beastman-GSPh)
Chaos Dwarf - bashy (bull centaur-GS, chaos dwarf blocker-GS, hobgoblin-G)
Dark Elf - balanced (witch elf-GA, blitzer-GA, thrower-GAP, lineman-GA) .... i would almost say agile...but delfs are so bashy capable, it's impossible to pigeonhole them into one slot
Dwarf - bashy (troll slayer-GS, blitzer-GS, runner-GP, longbeard-GS)
Elf - agile (blitzer-GA, catcher-GA, thrower-GAP, lineman-GA)
Goblin - stunty (goblin-A)
Halfling - stunty (hafling-A)
High Elf - agile (dragon warrior-GA, lion warrior-GA, phoenix warrior-GAP, lineman-GA)...i *almost* pout these as balanced, but with the fact that they have a definitive pass/catch game established at 100TR, unlike the delfs, it leans them more towards being a dodgy based team instead of in your face
Human - balanced (blitzer-GS, catcher-GA, thrower-GP, lineman-G)
Khemri - bashy (mummy-GS, blitz-ra-GS, thro-ra-GP, skeleton-G)
Lizardmen - bashy (saurus-GS, skink-A)...don't even start...lizards are not agile at all, so don't even try it...with almost half of the roster have S access, and the rest of the roster being stunties...they are *NOT* an agile team...so don't even try it...
Necromantic - balanced (flesh golem-GS, werewolf-GA, wight-G, ghoul-GA, zombie-G)
Norse - balanced (blitzer-GS, catcher-GA, thrower-GP, lineman-G)
Nurgle's Rotters - bashy (rotter-GSPh, beastman-GSPh)
Ogre - bashy (ogre-S, goblin-A)
Orc - bashy (black orc blocker-GS, blitzer-GS, thrower-GP, lineman-G, goblin-A)
Skaven - balanced (storm vermin-GSPh, gutter runner-GAPh, thrower-GPPh, lineman-GPh)
Undead - bashy (mummy-GS, wight-G, ghoul-GA, skeleton-G, zombie-G)...ugh...toughest choice on the list....none of the 4 options really apply, so bashy is the only option i can think of.....but i don't like it :-/
Vampire - bashy/agile (vampire-GAS, thrall-G)...modified after people decided to go postal about my OPINION...excuse me for not being intelligent about vamps, and not being such an uber blood bowl geek, and knowing every single tiny little facet of everything...
Wood Elf - agile (wardancer-GA, catcher-GA, thrower-GAP, lineman-GA)
agile - 4
bashy - 10
balanced - 6
stunty - 2
that's where my opinion lies....it's not gospel, except for the lizardman argument....and if i hear one more of you twinks try to say that lizards are anything *BUT* bashy....we're gonna have a fight..with sporks....lots of them...preferably plastic ones..
--j |
Last edited by shadow46x2 on %b %01, %2006 - %19:%Feb; edited 2 times in total |
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angelface
Joined: Mar 23, 2004
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Feb 01, 2006 - 18:47 |
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Vampires are definitely not balanced. Thralls break like nuts in a squirrel den, your only hope to score if vamps stop rolling 1's on ofabs or dodges and succeed in some decent passing play. Hypno also requires ag rolls.
Edit: vamps = BASHY as above??? Jesus Christ... |
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Uber
Joined: Mar 22, 2004
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Feb 01, 2006 - 19:01 |
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Shadow has the vamps as bashy, which is even more ridiculous. They're closer to agile if anything, but thralls aren't even balanced, they're just worthless.
I'd put the lizards as balanced, because they've got a mix of strong players and quick dodgers. The sauris' lack of basic skills and low agility prevents them from easily developping into a bashy team. |
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Recovering FUMBBL addict. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 19:06 |
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ok since obviously people didn't read what i posted...let me post it again for the "reading impaired" of the group
| shadow46x2 wrote: | | that's where my opinion lies....it's not gospel, except for the lizardman argument....and if i hear one more of you twinks try to say that lizards are anything *BUT* bashy....we're gonna have a fight..with sporks....lots of them...preferably plastic ones.. |
so ooooohhh...excuse me, oh blood bowl gods, if my OPINION doesn't match with yours....i forgot that some of us aren't allowed to have an OPINION around here....
--j |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 19:09 |
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I dislike Shadow's categories as opposed to mine, simply because they don't take into account the NUMBER of positionals. Skaven balanced? come on... only two storm vermins and a BG... DarkElves balanced?
No.
Humans bash darkies. Believe me on that. Darkies are agile BUT slow compared to other agile teams. But still they are agile. Humans are have 5 guards available without any double, and they can bash dark elves at any TR.
Lizards... well, I put them as balanced. They are agile (I mean, they dodge and they run) but if the sauri don't work they are just a scaly mean for everyone. So they are quite a strange team, but capable both of bashing ST3 and dodging ST4. So...
To angelface and uber: (ignoring the comments on how they suck, we all know they do) I put vampires as balanced simply because they have no positionals. Their positionals EITHER bash OR go for the agile plays. So it's really up to the coach how to play them. You can even change playstyle every turn. Vampires can dodge away and run, or blitz with ST4, or both... so I really don't know. That's why I gave them the Balanced flag.
ps: I just read shadow's post about opinions. He is right of course, but pls don't take it personal. Mine are opinions too. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 19:18 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | I dislike Shadow's categories as opposed to mine, simply because they don't take into account the NUMBER of positionals. Skaven balanced? come on... only two storm vermins and a BG...
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meh...i went with balanced, because the only *truly* agile players on the team are the guts...putting them up as an agile based team, i don't really think is accurate...being an ag3 team, you could say that of almost every team in the league....chaos are ag3, would they be an agile team as well?...i always figured that the "agile" label was reserved for teams with a standard ag4...
| JanMattys wrote: |
DarkElves balanced?
No.
Humans bash darkies. Believe me on that. Darkies are agile BUT slow compared to other agile teams. But still they are agile. Humans are have 5 guards available without any double, and they can bash dark elves at any TR. |
heh...i used to think delfs were on the same lines of the other elf teams, ag4, dodgy, elfball, blah blah blah...then i started playing them(yes i cherrypick...sue me  ), and realized they really are capable of toeing down with everyone.....while humans may be able to outpound a delf team, that really doesn't push them to being an agile based team....imo, humans are a more well-rounded team, not pure bashy, not pure agile, hence the balanced, and while the humies may be on the high side of balanced, i think the delfs are very definitely on the low side of balanced....
| JanMattys wrote: |
Lizards... well, I put them as balanced. They are agile (I mean, they dodge and they run) but if the sauri don't work they are just a scaly mean for everyone. So they are quite a strange team, but capable both of bashing ST3 and dodging ST4. So... |
thank you for not saying they were agile out of spite  ....my sporks have been getting a little randy...
--j |
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angelface
Joined: Mar 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 19:49 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | Their positionals EITHER bash OR go for the agile plays. So it's really up to the coach how to play them. |
Bashing doesn't mean that you are able to make a 2d blitz every turn, bashing means you can win matches with muscle power. Even darkelves can manage it from time to time, vamps definitely can't. And, moreover, they can't score a single td if they dont dodge and pass like madmen.
Of course this is an opinion. Of course shadow46x2 is allowed to have his opinion. What's the problem? |
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Idolen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 19:58 |
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Amazon - Broken
Chaos - Bashy
Chaos Dwarf - Broken
Dark Elf - Agile
Dwarf - Broken
Elf -Agile
Goblin - Stunty
Halfling -Stunty
High Elf - Agile
Human -Balanced
Khemri -Broken
Lizardmen -Strange
Necromantic -Bashy
Norse -Broken
Nurgle's Rotters-Bashy
Ogre -Broken
Orc -Bashy... and broken
Skaven -Speedy
Undead -Bashy
Vampire -Strange
Wood Elf -Superior
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2006 - 20:04 |
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Lizards are balanced and not bashy IMO. Half the team can't even get block without doubles, the other half usually dont get mighty blow until 31 SPPs since many coaches start with block and break tackle as the 1st 2 skills.
They are not a team that usually wins just by eliminating the opponents from the pitch 1st. |
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