ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jan 15, 2017 - 17:28 |
 
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| mister__joshua wrote: | | Also 3rd edition DT made cages a very different prospect! |
Dauntless + DT 
Stand firm was fun too! |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jan 15, 2017 - 19:13 |
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Which dastardly fellow first started stalling to use up time? 
Probably someone realised it not long after 3rd edition tabletop came out. And will no doubted have been heckled if they tried it in a GW shop on Games Night. |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Jan 15, 2017 - 19:23 |
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I think its in the 3rd ed rulebook... |
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Desultory
Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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Jan 15, 2017 - 19:37 |
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| garyt1 wrote: | Which dastardly fellow first started stalling to use up time?
Probably someone realised it not long after 3rd edition tabletop came out. And will no doubted have been heckled if they tried it in a GW shop on Games Night. |
I'm sure I read, but can't remember the name of the coach or where I read it, that a coach got banned from FUMBBL (a long time a go) for running in to the corner with elves and doing nothing, i.e. stalling? maybe I dreamt it. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Jan 15, 2017 - 19:59 |
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Who invented the unnatural one turn scoring I wonder?
I have troubles to picture someone to start doing that in a tabletop environment... i think back then I'd have probably gone like: dude wtf are you doing, stop exploiting the rules!' and then would have gotten the league manager involved because he's trying something fishy with chainpushes.  You can't actually move faster by being shoved around, it doesn't make sense.
...But then it totally does make sense online. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jan 15, 2017 - 20:15 |
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Dave invented it in 2003 |
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Desultory
Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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Jan 15, 2017 - 21:03 |
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Who was the first to start stacking CPOMB... |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Jan 15, 2017 - 23:25 |
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| Desultory wrote: | | Who was the first to start stacking CPOMB... |
CPOMB was a conscious game design effort the creators decided on upon careful consideration of the probabilities involved.
CPOMB was to compensate for removing Dirty Player and Claw+RSC but..
personally I believe the new Piling On would've made more sense in the context of LRB4 Dirty Player and there were just a lot of fixes for individual problems and less of an effort to consider overcomittment on fixes.. In a way the same has happend now in the unnecessary removeal of Piling On, rather than to make a serious effort to balance the skill. (It was already balanced in LRB4).
So this has been around from earliest testing on but probably not to the same extend been practiced or been public knowledge. I also feel like great advancements have been made over the years particularly in the ability to combat CPOMB.
After the release of CRP on fumbbl there was a general fear of fouling and people gave out warnings to absolutely avoid doing it now.
There was an atmosphere of hopelessness in regards to CPOMB but fouling is still the best strategy to handle it by a long margin. |
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Cocinero
Joined: Sep 14, 2011
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Jan 16, 2017 - 22:52 |
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I wonder who was the first that turn a non-related thread into a CPOMB thread. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Jan 16, 2017 - 23:13 |
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Orcs. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jan 17, 2017 - 00:08 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | | There was an atmosphere of hopelessness in regards to CPOMB but fouling is still the best strategy to handle it by a long margin. |
Fouling is rather random for a top strategy. 1/3 chance of being sent off assuming you broke armour.
Including non armour breaks the sending off chance is less but then you haven't achieved anything. And if you do break armour there is a significant chance of stunning.
Getting a player sent off to cause a stun is rarely positive. |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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Jan 17, 2017 - 02:43 |
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CPOMB 2d vs Block, 24% player removal. Player cost 140k+ and 3+ skills (usually 180k+ and 4+ skills). Should remove 2 players per half, if they can reach the blitzes after going down, and aren't stunned by a foul or something, so you need two of them to remove about 6 players per match for ~360k player value.
Dirty Player, gang foul, 58% player removal. Player TV 60+ and 1 skill (usually 70k and 1 skill). Should remove 2 players per DP and up to 10 players though the match for ~350k player value with five dirty players.
One of these things is better than the other. Sadly you can only foul once per turn, and gang fouls are tricky to get if people are a bit shy with their Piling On for some reason. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Jan 17, 2017 - 12:49 |
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@tussock: the % you give for a DP gang foul seems a bit high and the one for CPOMB seems a bit low to me. Are you assuming that armour breaks for the foul? That's quite an assumption for AV8/9, even with 4 assists.
The other things that skew it in favour of CPOMB (as well as only being able to foul once per turn, which you mention) are that there is a risk of being sent off with a foul and also it requires bunching players together, so there is a positional concession. |
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Calthor
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
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Jan 17, 2017 - 12:53 |
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It's either Orcs or Dwarfs. They were the first playing the game, after all! |
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Desultory
Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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Jan 17, 2017 - 13:00 |
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Gang fouls rarely happen without already dominating the game, OR being completely happy to sacrifice a touchdown. Not often are there more than 2-4 foul assisters usually. Without writing the stats; Pile on was unrealistically powerful in comparison to fouling. If realism (or more players on the pitch) is what we are going for, it's good pile on is going. Now to address AG5 player pickups failing 16.6% of the time.
Still, at some point in time some clever guy(s) realised that CPOMB was worth stacking, and every one copied him. |
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