Da_Todfatha
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
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 Posted:
Jul 22, 2005 - 15:56 |
 
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heheheh this is funny.
I recently held a 2-1 advantage over a team that despite not being able to win blitzed my ball carrier on Turn 15 with his Rat Ogre, leaving said rat Ogre inside a cage of my players. This Rat Ogre was then knocked to the ground and given a boot to the head. By most coaches on FUMBBL this was unsportsmanlike on my part, but not on his, and I don't understand why? His action was taken to hopefully injure my player, SPP's, and 'develop' his team further. He could have hit anyone, but he chose to hit the guy inside the cage, I suppose to make it appear the action had other merit, or perhaps because it is generally viewed in poor taste to T16 foul, but I think that is a lame concept.
Everything is situational, so we need to stop discussing the actions themselves. Is fouling lame? Nope. Can it be used to destroy a team when it's destruction is not necessary? Yes it can. Crowd-pushing, and star-hiring are similar and it is their implementation that causes problems, but the actions themselves are not unsportsmanlike. What are the coaches that exploit such loopholes missing in their lives? What are you missing in yours that makes you so against these actions?
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Jul 22, 2005 - 16:01 |
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Well, you ever read my forum signature? I try not to be mean, but I consider it respectful to play hard until the end (as do most coaches in the NFL and CFL, Darkwolf), giving some playing time to your "second stringers" when you are up makes sense in both RL sports and Bloodbowl, getting them out there will be good in case they need to go out there when the starters are injured later, but to intentionally play NOT to get SPP for yourself is... weird. I won't necessary risk my players to stop the opponent the way I would earlier in the game, but that's different than helping him along (and based on what I've seen of Darwolf's play, that's really what he's talking about). Anyway, I'm just repeating others at this point, so I will stop. |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jul 22, 2005 - 16:54 |
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Talking sports here and not Bloodbowl, maybe there is an element of Europe/NA.
In our leagues championships can be decided on 'goal difference'. Beating a team 5-0 when your nearest rival only beat them 1-0 can win you the championship.
We don't have unlimited substitutions. You may only be able to substitute three or four players. If a player goes off he will not be allowed to return.
Take the wrong guy off and you're getting the sack.
We have relegation. i.e. the teams at the bottom of the league get kicked out to be replaced by another team each season. If we take it easy at the end of the season and only beat a team 1-0 who we could have beaten 5-0, a team we beat 5-0 eariler in the season could be relegated in their place. Is that fair?
Winning 5-0 every week gives you the psyche advantage over the next opponent. They will not be as scared of the team that only wins 1-0 every week.
If a team wins 11-0 we don't moan about running up the score. We produce a special edition DVD showing every goal from every concievable angle. 
And we sing about it for the next 50 years that that team visits
I don't play much sport now but I have done. Mostly those where getting hurt was part of the game.
And that's just the fans.
| Darkwolf wrote: | My biggest complaint here is that many of you never played sports. This is a fantasy sports game. Most of you hide behind your pc's and try to ram your fist down someones throat. Or just keep laying the boot when someone is down for the count.
- Dice rapes happen. I dont like them for me or against me. Its like being up 33-7 late in the 4th quarter (NFL) or leading 4-0 late in the thrid (NHL) and trying to score another td/goal by putting your best players out there. If you pulled that on the field/ice, you would get hurt, plain and simple. But since this is a game behind pc's, most of you behave poorly under these circumstances. You dont have to face the consequences of your actions.
-I enjoy my rep as a coach, because of how I treat my opponent when I win. I inore that 7-8th turn blitz when Im leading, I will kick it out of bounds to help my opps 5spp linemen get that pass, I will ignore some pows when all i need is a push. I enjoyblood just as much as paulhicks and deathgerbil, but when the game is decided and the coach has such bad luck, why rub his/her nose in it.
-Serioulsy, some of you should actually try playing sports. I thought it was a europe/NA culture difference here, but its a frame of mind. Its a fantasy sports game and fumbbl would really benefit from more sports minded coaches. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jul 22, 2005 - 17:11 |
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Dead right. If an NFL team is taking it easy in the 4th quarter they are doing it for their own benefit. i.e. They don't want their best guys getting injured or to get backup guys experience.
Is it so bad to try for another 2 SPPs for that rookie black orc to get block.
I would not want to wipe out a guy's team unnecesarily. I always get that bad feeling though, when the player I did not push out of bounds throws a block on the last turn.
Still, Darkwolf sounds like a great guy.
| Macavity wrote: | | Well, you ever read my forum signature? I try not to be mean, but I consider it respectful to play hard until the end (as do most coaches in the NFL and CFL, Darkwolf), giving some playing time to your "second stringers" when you are up makes sense in both RL sports and Bloodbowl, getting them out there will be good in case they need to go out there when the starters are injured later, but to intentionally play NOT to get SPP for yourself is... weird. I won't necessary risk my players to stop the opponent the way I would earlier in the game, but that's different than helping him along (and based on what I've seen of Darwolf's play, that's really what he's talking about). Anyway, I'm just repeating others at this point, so I will stop. |
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origami
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
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Jul 22, 2005 - 19:44 |
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I gotta admit that I do get a little attached to some of my star players. I don't think that it's really a bad thing, as long as it doesn't go overboard. It can add to the excitement - having a mummy block your star elf catcher who's been with you for 30 games feels a lot different than if that same mummy is blocking a lino. |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Jul 22, 2005 - 20:12 |
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getting attached to your players is cool. getting attached to them to the point that you abuse and insult a player who fouls them or crowd-pushes them while YOU deem it "unnecessary" is bad.
i'm not saying you do that origami, i'm speaking in general, so please don't take it for yourself =) |
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BigMac
Joined: Dec 19, 2004
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Aug 05, 2005 - 19:09 |
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Really bad sportsmanship is when you appologize for killing opposing players.
Bad sportsmanship is also when one of your players was killed by your opponent you do not try your hardest to avenge him.
Furthermore it's bad sportsmanship to score more touchdowns than absolutely necessary. |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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Aug 05, 2005 - 19:56 |
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I just want all of you to SUFFER! |
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Hammerhiem
Joined: Sep 07, 2004
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Aug 05, 2005 - 20:40 |
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| Quote: |
Really bad sportsmanship is when you appologize for killing opposing players.
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Compassion is bad sportmanship? I beg to differ, i don't block players with the intention of killing them. I accept it as a risk but I far prefer a BH, to a RIP (less chance of an Apo being used for 1 thing)
Staulling tactically is fine, Staulling to obliterate your opponents team thats just sad.
Fouling tactically is fine, Putting 5 players around a lino and running a DP 5 spaces to foul, thats just sad.
Crowd pushing is fine if that player is a threat either then or later in the match. Crowd pushing just because you can when it doesn't matter thats just sad.
Broadly speaking (Inc gross generalisations) there are three types of player here.
1.Those that just enjoy the game and want the people they play to enjoy it aswell, these people will run in a TD on Turn 7 to allow thier Oppo a chance to get a pass for that SPP 5 player. They don't crowd push or foul on turn 16 aviod loading thier teams with broken skills that hurt thier opponent but take skills that help them win.
2. Those who only want to win, these will play hard but fair, win at all costs BB and generally don't really care what thier opponent feels or does.
3. the sad individual that enjoys breaking other players teams and is often confused with player type 2. but will staul to hurt opponents, foul every turn, hire Stars after agreeing the matchup, They are often more interested in making thier opponent NOT enjoy the game than any interest in winning itself.
I am player type 1. i love player type 2 because they do not interfere with my game other than beating me (which i couldn't care less about anyway.) but player type 3 is the people i do and always will avoid playing. I have a Bio that TELLS people this and that i hope leads that type of player to avoid me.
For Example: Muttesmutte fouled me 7 times in our last game but never once looked anything like Player type 3 and our game was Super enjoyable, he took playing to win exactly far enough without once making it seem like it was personal. Thats why he's on my recommended play list and "others" are not. |
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Your mind is like a parachute, it only works if it's open.
arghh bumflaps , another fumble. Why can't these Gobbo's just pick the ball up? |
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Tabby
Joined: Jul 12, 2005
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Aug 05, 2005 - 20:43 |
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hehe - fouling,stalling,crowd-pushing, hire a star - is this being a bd sportsman or using common sense?
I think it is a pretty black and white issue. You do what you can to win. If your opponent has 4 players left on the pitch then kill then/foul them - or they may get lucky 6´s and get the ball and score.
If you dont like the methods used - then why equip your team with block/mightyblow/frenzy/big-guys st increase?
Sure I hate it when it happens to me - but it is part of what the game is about.
And things such as 16th turn fouls etc all comes down to perception - there is no wrong or right.
If a player fouls me 8 rounds at the first half becuase he had the "ref" -and I want revenge on the 16th round - then I feel that is quite fair. But that is my opinion and perception - as I said there is no wrong or right.
Only thing that should not be done in-game is using abusive language at your opponent or taking long turns to annoy them. I have had this happen to me - and cant understand the mentality of it. |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Aug 05, 2005 - 21:49 |
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| Hammerhiem wrote: | | without once making it seem like it was personal. |
i think that's the core of it. people seem to think it is personal when you crowd-push. people, when i foul your wardancer, i'm not saying "you're an idiot and i hate you". i'm just playing a frigging game. i wonder how people do when they play SoulBlade or another fighting game with their friends... "oops, sorry dude, i think i killed your guy..." "damn bastard !!! and i thought you were my friend !!!" |
_________________
'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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Aug 05, 2005 - 21:53 |
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I've actually met less these individual using abusive language when I kill their teams, than before, I wonder... have we grown up? |
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Renegade
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
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Aug 05, 2005 - 22:14 |
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Sportsman is an anagram for Ms Strap-on.
So don't blame me if I act unaccordingly and attempt to virtually ass rape your favourite players...  |
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DreadClaw
Joined: Nov 17, 2003
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Aug 05, 2005 - 22:29 |
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I'm the most sporting coach on fumbbl. I will gladly rid you of excess pixels, have a laugh while killing eachothers teams, and playing the game as i should.. maybe i'll even play bashy teams with my woodies or my skaven or flings if i'm brave (or Really drunk)
There is but one way to be a bad sport. and that's by being a sore loser//winner//drawer. Remember.. pixels are pixels (and yes, i have fouled when there was 2 or less players on the pitch without remorse ) |
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BigMac
Joined: Dec 19, 2004
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Aug 05, 2005 - 22:29 |
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| Hammerhiem wrote: | | Quote: |
Really bad sportsmanship is when you appologize for killing opposing players.
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Compassion is bad sportmanship?
-snip- blablablabla bad mean people foul blabla -snip- |
I have to reconsider my policy of finding do-not-play lists ridicolus...
People with your attitude take all the fun out of the game for me.
Of course you block to kill, a kill is the perfect block.
And you don't appologize, you YELL "Oh Hell oh yeah die, Orc scumm, IN YOUR FACE Baby!!! And then you boo the Apothecary, thats the spirit!
Fouling and crowdpushing before you score is an absolutely gutsy move and you have to tip your hat to coaches who pull of suche moves, because of the risk and because of the spirit and whackiness of the game.
Do you think a 2,5 m tall 250 kg heavy blood thirsty Black Orc hesitates to smash someones face just because something called "the ball" happens to be next to him? maybe if you ask him politely... |
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