| Poll |
| Should your always use your freedom of speech |
| Yes freedom of sppech is so importent that one should alwayes speek ones mind. |
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61% |
[ 132 ] |
| No you should not use your freedom of speech to insult people. |
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38% |
[ 82 ] |
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| Total Votes : 214 |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:09 |
 
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Free Speech doesn't equal a license to disrespect other people and their believes.
You can say anything. But the Manner is important. You know Mezir, what do you think is being preached over there right now? "If we stop protesting against what we perceive to be an utter insult because of political pressure, then we accept that we allow other people to dictate our actions and believes." Of course they will word it differently - but the arguments are the same on either side.
It never WAS about some stupid cartoons in the first place.
-Mnemon |
Last edited by Mnemon on %b %05, %2006 - %14:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:10 |
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Really Smess?
Your mother was the cheapest whore on the planet ... ?
Haha ?
Freedom of speech and "making fun" or massive and blatant insult?? |
Last edited by f_alk on %b %05, %2006 - %14:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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MiBasse
Joined: Dec 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:10 |
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| Buur wrote: | @redfish yes the hole situation has been exploited politicaly by all sides...... But still i dont get why oh why we should risk facing the wrath of the moslems in the world, just so "Jyllands Posten" can bring some drawings of Mohhamed....
that is for me like pissing of bikers in a bar.... (well i know there are people that gets their nose broken every weekend for this too, but i dont get that either  )
-Buur |
I'm not saying we "should risk the wrath". I'm not even saying I concur with the posting of the drawings. Hell - I don't even know what I'm saying
I do however know that the drawings were published after a writer had failed to acquire enough drawings from artists to finish his book about Islam/Muslims (wether he should never have started writing this book I don't know as I haven't read the contents) as the artists were afraid of prosecussion from muslim fundamentalists. The drawings published by "Jyllands Posten" were posted as a protest to the fact that artists were afraid to excercise their freedom of speech.
I believe that the fear of the ladder is terrible and is a danger to any kind of globalized world.
I also believe the newspaper dealt with the matter in a very distasteful way.
I also believe that the small group of ambitious Imams who went to the Middle East to spread lies didn't care one thing about Mohammed or any of their fellow muslims but were more interested in gaining more influence.
I believe that the radical groups of nationalists in Denmark are acting like scavengers when they try exploit this to raise the hatred of ethnic minorities in Denmark and thus gain more political influence.
I believe that the moderate Muslims and the less moderate ones in Denmark are handling the matter very well - though some seem to forget that the paper DID step people on the toes with steel tipped boots as they might be afraid to be labelled radical.
I believe that the world lacks empathy.
I believe chocolate can extent your life-span but should be consumed in moderate amounts and preferably be dark.
I believe sun makes more energetic but like how the darkness of the winter can make me broody and nostalgic.
I believe that brownrob didn't mean to insult anyone as I also believe he's a good guy.
Cheers, people. |
Last edited by MiBasse on %b %05, %2006 - %14:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:10 |
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| HollowOne wrote: | | BigMac wrote: | | As far as the cartoons go, the simple truth is, these people are stone-age. They and their culture is 200 years or so behind ours. If we were as primitive as them, we'd simply start a new crusade to conquer Jerusalem back... |
Wow. Wow. You are a racist, and part of the problem, not part of the solution. |
Seconded. |
_________________
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Buur
Joined: Apr 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:11 |
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| Quote: |
This is like a bully beating you up because he doesn't like what you're saying. |
my point exactly.... But why oh why would one risk it for those drawings... i belive strongly in freedom of speech but i also belive in picking your battles!
-Buur |
_________________
For most people, reason is nothing but their own believes. |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:11 |
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I just realised that both HollowOne and myself ignored our own basic tenets of faith... We fed the troll.  |
_________________
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:13 |
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I can't vote in the poll by the way - both options don't really work.
Yes I do believe that one should speak ones mind. But there is no use in insulting them while doing so.
(And I hope anyone bothers to read my longer posts further on in this thread, actually  )
-Mnemon |
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HollowOne
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:14 |
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| Mezir wrote: | | I just realised that both HollowOne and myself ignored our own basic tenets of faith... We fed the troll. |
I have nothing more to say to BigMac. |
_________________
A censor is a man who knows more than he thinks you ought to. - Granville Hicks |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:15 |
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| Buur wrote: | | Quote: |
This is like a bully beating you up because he doesn't like what you're saying. |
my point exactly.... But why oh why would one risk it for those drawings... |
That's precisely why you should risk it... I don't really know how I should explain that, if you already agree with my argument.
Not saying it because you're afraid of what might happen is the same as not saying it because you're not allowed to. A limit on your freedom of speech.
Because if you don't say this because someone might beat you up... What other concessions will follow? |
_________________
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. |
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HollowOne
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:20 |
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| Mnemon wrote: | | I can't vote in the poll by the way - both options don't really work. |
I agree. The poll is oversimplified. It's not a boolean issue.
| Quote: | | Yes I do believe that one should speak ones mind. But there is no use in insulting them while doing so. |
I think the line is drawn at deliberate, direct insult. For example, if we went back 500 years ago and claimed that the Earth went around the Sun, we might be offending many Christians, including the Catholic Church, whose beliefs said otherwise, I'm sure we can all agree that in this case, the offense caused is not deliberate. The same is true of portraying the Prophet Muhammed in an illustration; if you, being ignorant of Muslim culture, draw a picture of him, then you accidentally insulted them and the offense is not deliberate.
If, on the other hand, you are picturing Muhammed as a terrorist, you are in fact playing on the racist stereotype of "Muslim == Terrorist", you are being deliberately offensive and you are practicing hate speech. |
_________________
A censor is a man who knows more than he thinks you ought to. - Granville Hicks |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:23 |
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. Full Stop.
-Mnemon |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:23 |
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| Mnemon wrote: | | You can say anything. But the Manner is important. You know Mezir, what do you think is being preached over there right now? "If we stop protesting against what we perceive to be an utter insult because of political pressure, then we accept that we allow other people to dictate our actions and believes." Of course they will word it differently - but the arguments are the same on either side. |
The difference is that they are telling me what to do, ergo they do not respect either me, my point of view, or my religion. I am not telling them what they can and cannot do (well, outside the obvious "thou shalt not kill"). And I will defend their right to call me an evil heretic and to preach that I will burn in hell for all eternity, without reserve. |
_________________
Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day; set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. |
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zerkalo
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:28 |
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The reaction the bomb caricature got, is just a testament to how right to the point the caricature was.
What went through those muslims' minds who saw that drawing, and felt insulted, "I am not a terrorist, I hate bombs" and then got angry, and went to burn flags and buildings... Where's the logic.
Maybe they understood the drawing wrong. Maybe humor and sarcasm and comics are very rare in muslim cultures. The drawing didn't imply that Muhammed was a terrorist. It implied that terrorism / explosive behaviour / extreme reactions / violence etc are part of muslim culture, not big part, but maybe 1-5%...
Maybe it was just a good excuse for those who like to burn, to burn something... |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:30 |
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Undskyld, undskyld
Undskyld, fordi vi gav jer husly og hjælp.
Undskyld, fordi vi giver jer en uddannelse.
Undskyld, fordi vi hjælper jer økonomisk.
Undskyld, fordi I frit kan dyrke jeres tro i vores kristne land.
Undskyld, fordi vi sender hjælp til jeres lande.
Undskyld, fordi vi ikke kræver blodhævn for morderne på vores landsmænd begået af muslimer.
Undskyld, fordi vi ikke render rundt med sprængstoffer på kroppen, når vi føler os krænget.
Undskyld, fordi vi ikke bare gør, som jeres tro siger.
Men en undskyldning for at ytre os i vores eget land og efter vores egne love - den får I aldrig.
-Ekstrabladet Læserbrev
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Translation:
Sorry, sorry
Sorry for giving you shelter and help
Sorry for giving you an education
Sorry for helping you financially
Sorry for giving you the freedom to follow your faith in our christian country
Sorry for sending aid to your home countries
Sorry for not demanding blood for the murder of our countrymen
Sorry for not running around with c4 strapped to our bodies everytime we feel offended
Sorry for not doing whatever your faith dictates
But you'll never recieve an apology for voicing our opinion in our own country, according to our own laws - you'll never have that. |
_________________
Forum terrorist. |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2006 - 14:36 |
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| zerkalo wrote: | The reaction the bomb caricature got, is just a testament to how right to the point the caricature was.
What went through those muslims' minds who saw that drawing, and felt insulted, "I am not a terrorist, I hate bombs" and then got angry, and went to burn flags and buildings... Where's the logic.
Maybe they understood the drawing wrong. Maybe humor and sarcasm and comics are very rare in muslim cultures. The drawing didn't imply that Muhammed was a terrorist. It implied that terrorism / explosive behaviour / extreme reactions / violence etc are part of muslim culture, not big part, but maybe 1-5%...
Maybe it was just a good excuse for those who like to burn, to burn something... |
Do you even begin to realize how much you assist "those muslims" in their cause? Comments like these only confirm to those that feel suppressed, assaulted and violated that they have and follow a rightful cause.
Yes, it was only an excuse, but why give it to them in the first place? And why give them yet another? And another, ad infinitum. It's absurd.
-Mnemon |
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