Khudzlin
Joined: May 24, 2007
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 Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 - 11:19 |
 
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As a user, I confirm that BOTOCS gives you the choice to use either LRB5 rules or Experimental rules. More than that, you can customize rules by making XML rules files detailing team rosters, stars, inducements and whether you use LRB5 game mechanics or Experimental game mechanics (Horns, Diving Catch, apothecary on KO's, etc). |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Oct 26, 2009 - 11:36 |
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I've only skim read this after a weekend away (oooh, the Bucs were bad, however, good times...), but this thread underlines the thing that saddens me most about BB, this horrid 'us and them' divide. We're just as bad as they are, why we can't all be friends and enjoy our hobby together is beyond me.
The tabletop World is full of committed, intelligent coaches that care deeply for the grass roots of the game, but have this silly blindspot where they look down on online players (/generalisation) as 'X-Box Ronaldos', and the online World full of people that dismiss TT as black and white TV, we've played a bazillion more games than you, who are you to dictate to me the rules of a game I play more than you?
The game and the community at large will never progress until we all come together for the good of the game. The fact 6 is ‘it’ for a while is a crying shame, the resource of the internet should be mined to improve the game. The World is progressing down the digital path, and the volume of games played in comparison will only increase. 5 and 6 both have aspects that won’t work as well online as they do in TT leagues, and it’s an odd thing that the majority of coaches will miss out; but the TT blindspot means that they take an e-mail league with 3 games played (and a front page announcement offering amnesty to cheats so that the new rules might be ok, believe it or not, and also a place for Amazons with Stunties and Ogres and Vamps in the 'underpowered' races league) more seriously than the opinion of the old heads that have played thousands of games here and understand the heartbeat of BB so thoroughly. With dispassionate, logical eyes, this only can be seen as nuts.
The answer is that we work together - whilst I understand the frustrations of those like pythrr, being angry about it will do us no good. Yes; it’s frustrating that we seem no to have a massive say despite contributing a massive number of games, but at the moment this is life. Afterall, what would you do? Hold a forum poll of what we’d change in the rules? Imagine how silly the response would end up being. For any new rule you don't like, there is a 10 man TT league of poop quality that's had a say along with the 50 man high quality ones. For every one of us that thinks the eye is a tactical beauty, there are 5 newer players that think foulers should be expelled full stop. How do you filter the white forum noise from intelligent opinion? We would need to be more subtle. Hence, I believe anyway, there should simply be a number of learned coaches from FUMBBL (and Cyanide if it lasts) on the committee looking after the interests of online coaches in future rule discussions. I tried to forward this view on TBB once, didn’t go down very well. Perhaps one day it will. 
Anyway, gogo new client. Sooner it shows up, sooner the inevitable is with us, sooner we can shout about rules holes we find when it's tested properly, and we can maybe get the BBRC together sooner than planned to fix them. I have a foot and an interest in both FUMBBL and TT camps; and I'd really like to just be a coach one day, rather than 'that FUMBBL bloke'. At least Babs is here, he's trying to understand FUMBBL, trying to help with the client... TBH, we should be helping him help us, not bombarding him with ideas that he can do little with at this stage, or questioning his credentials. If we can nurture a BBRC FUMBBLer, thats a big win for us long term. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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damn, just when i want to come on and say something sensible PG beats me to it.
Thanks Babs for the offer. It is up to the designer as to whether it is of use to him.
I do think it a little odd, from the gamers perspective, that there is no online presence in the BBRC, though i understand it from a comercial and RL gamer perspective. GW and NAF domination allows the retention of the concept 'this game was created for TT gamers', and to shift models.
We should always remember that we, here at fumbbl, exist due to the tollerance of the 'powers' within the BB community. The game was not designed to be used in this way, i can see why our input would be adjudged to not have any value to the RL play of BB.
Yet here on fumbbl we DO have the people that run the 2 largest perpetuating leagues in BB. The WIL and the SWL. We also commission and run a LOT of Tournaments at all TR(TV) levels, i doubt anythig the size of the FC is attempted in RL, as well as all the 'open' games played here. i can think of half a dozen people on fumbbl with the experience and good sense to be of use to the BBRC, and maybe thats where we should concentrate our efforts. It would be lovely to think a BBRC could accomodate 2-3 coaches representing the online community, but i cant see it ever happening. I would settle for one, doubtless that would mean they came from Cyanide (while it exists), but this would still be a step forward. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Oct 26, 2009 - 12:28 |
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Surely the fact that Babs even made the offer should be seen as a good sign.
I really do hope that we can make BB work both online and on TT seeing as I play both (as do a lot of people here). |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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| Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 - 12:51 |
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babs good on you for making this offer and attempting to reach out to the fumbbl community.
i apologise that some were offtopic and aggressive for random reasons
i would love it if you read my sig... something to keep in mind for lrb7 mayhaps
anyway cheers
and join swl
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_________________
Check out my fishing and camping blog.
The Black Pearl Bounty-Board.
GUARD CONQUERS ALL! |
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Reisender
Joined: Sep 29, 2007
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Oct 26, 2009 - 12:53 |
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i want to support what purp. purp and foul said.
also, having a look at babs profile tells me that he is also interested in widening his BB perspective with online play, and not coming from a "i am a bbrc committee member and know everything better perspective" as some have suggested here.
people will never agree to 100% to all rule changes - and even those who think removing the eye is a great flaw should see that there are some reasonable changes in LRB 5/maybe 6
i think in the long view fumbbl could benefit a lot from babs support - hell if we cant get a fumbbler to become bbrc member we make a bbrc member a fumbbler, pressure him by troll threads and forum polls until we rule the world of bloodbowl
so thanks babs for the offer - its up to kalimar/maybe christer to accept it or not, but it can be the beginning of a great friendship between fumbbl and bbrc 
and guys, this 5+ years no rules change stands for now. let babs get some more fumbbl games, let us together with babs get some more data with lrb5/6 and we shall see what needs to be changed urgently and if it will
btw babs pleeeaaaase change zons like you did with norse. half naked fumbbl ladies deserve some better skills....
ps: on a sidenote, i fail to see the GREAT tactical thing in the eye. ofcourse fouling tactics will change, but come on: dont foul back or dont foul an unskilled lino with the eye on when you can foul a st5 wardancer later are not Einstein problems... |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Oct 26, 2009 - 13:21 |
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| Reisender wrote: | | ps: on a sidenote, i fail to see the GREAT tactical thing in the eye. ofcourse fouling tactics will change, but come on: dont foul back or dont foul an unskilled lino with the eye on when you can foul a st5 wardancer later are not Einstein problems... |
When the eye is on you, there are alot of evaluations to make, if a foul is worthwhile. You have to think, if the assists make a KO/cas likely enough to warrant a 50:50 shot of your player being send off. You have to factor in the apo (which will also be gone in LRB5) availability, the total numbers and how much you need the fouling player in the current drive. When the eye is on your opponent, you have to consider, if you want to give your opponent the ability to foul back at will. Has he more players, who has juicier foul targets etc.
LRB5 fouling is more or less: If assists reduce armor value below x and TV of prone guy > fouler, then foul. |
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Qaz
Joined: Apr 28, 2004
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Oct 26, 2009 - 14:03 |
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As we might not have the influence that some crave I see Babs post as a outstretched hand and one that we should generously accept. As PG pointed out its better to integrate and come understand one another. Lets be happy that they took a step stretched out a hand and lets take full advantage of the offer. |
_________________
Superstition brings bad luck.
"he who has relied least on fortune is established
the strongest"
Niccolo Machiavelli |
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Enar
Joined: Mar 05, 2004
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Oct 26, 2009 - 14:16 |
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I'm joining the chorus of positivity here! It can not be bad that Babs is communicating with the fumbbl community. Personally I think it is cool that a BBRC member is this outreaching to us! |
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lordchaos
Joined: Sep 30, 2004
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Oct 26, 2009 - 15:10 |
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All you guys who are pissed off with lrb5, have you even played it outside of fumbbl before? Fouling is tactical still. Sure it's easier to get caught but you have to pick your fouls rather than just foul for the hell of it like people do on fumbbl. Half the people I play foul almost every freakin turn, how is that tactical? With "the eye" it's just a "you foul, I foul" game and there is no tactics in that, it just turns into a foul fest with little repercussion. In lrb 5 you still get the foul fests but both coaches will usually pay the price in the end by getting someone kicked out of the game and BB is a numbers game, The more numbers you have on the field, the better. So it's still tactical not to foul as well.
I don't know, maybe it's me but I find constant fouling by one coach when they get "get the ref" a bit lop sided. I play lrb5 all the time and it is way more of a tactical game now that fouling has been subdued. |
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I am the Razor Ramon of BB and I would 16 turn foul my own mom, so don't be surprised when I do it to you! |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Oct 26, 2009 - 15:17 |
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| lordchaos wrote: | | Half the people I play foul almost every freakin turn |
Then stop playing noobs. |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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Oct 26, 2009 - 15:32 |
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I also think that a good percentage of the coaches here on fumbbl are or have at least been playing IRL as well as online. I know I do.
Played LRB4 and also LRB5/6 as well as IRL and on Fumbbl/Cyanide/MBBL etc. with over 300 games under LRB5 (over 80 IRL) I have not really seen a plausible increase in fouling to LRB4. The only thing I did see is a decrease of casualties due to fouling due to the reduction of DP to +1 and not counting the fouler as +1 already. This is what usually is defined as "less tactical" because you have a much lower chance to cas an opposing player in regards to the chance of getting sent off. I fail the see the problem with that though.....
Still think LRB5 is an improvement and like some of the LRB6 stuff even more (yay to stunty rules and no loner halflings  ).
| CircularLogic wrote: | | Then stop playing noobs. |
strangely enough our IRL noobs foul almost never unless you foul them |
_________________
"Power without perception is virtually useless and therefore of no true value!" - Ryouken - Master of the Hokuto no Ken Martial Arts |
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Fela
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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Oct 26, 2009 - 15:54 |
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| xcver wrote: |
| CircularLogic wrote: | | Then stop playing noobs. |
strangely enough our IRL noobs foul almost never unless you foul them |
You're looking at the wrong level of noobishness
Very early noobs will not foul at all - the 'fouling is unfair' from RL sports still dominating thoughts and being preoccupied with other new aspects of the game.
On the next level and often after having experienced the efficiency (or playing one of the more brutal teams) they will foul too much. In RL it's more likely this level will be omitted completely due to not experiencing the extreme side of fouling as much. Also at this level in TT - as opposed to fumbbl - they would possibly not be considered noobs anymore after playing well over 5 or even 10 (!) matches
Sorry about straying from the topic btw. and thank you Babs |
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maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
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Oct 26, 2009 - 16:02 |
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From what I've seen, the changes between LRB5 and LRB6 are quite minimal. If you're including the 3 new rosters (chaos pact, underworld, slaan) then there's a bit more work (3 new rosters to implement, along with icons, plus Animosity), there's a bit more. But once the basic rule set is in, LRB6 isn't 1/10th the difference from LRB5 as LRB5 was to LRB4. If it weren't for the whole-number approach to revisions, it could easily be called LRB5.1.
(Does anyone else feel the anti-BBRC stuff is unproductive? They own the rules changes for everyone, not just fumbbl. I don't need to see his birth certificate) |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 - 16:07 |
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| maysrill wrote: |
(Does anyone else feel the anti-BBRC stuff is unproductive? They own the rules changes for everyone, not just fumbbl. I don't need to see his birth certificate) |
I agree |
_________________
"Power without perception is virtually useless and therefore of no true value!" - Ryouken - Master of the Hokuto no Ken Martial Arts |
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