Jeffro
Joined: Jan 22, 2009
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 Posted:
Dec 15, 2013 - 21:04 |
 
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Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I would be against any changes to BlackBox rules that are not also incorporated into Ranked, in so long as the two divisions continue to have major tourneys that include them both. Folks may argue that they are different "training grounds" in the way matches are chosen... but they play by the same rules. Would the FUMBBL Cup then adopt the BlackBox rules, then?!? Or would Box teams in tourneys then have a different rule book when they enter tournaments?!
Love the effort everyone puts into the site, but keep your change  |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Dec 15, 2013 - 21:05 |
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| Gartch wrote: | | I mean if claw can stack with nothing it's just completely useless, and the result will be the reign of AV9 teams. |
Note that Claw does still "stack" with POMB, in that if you roll 8+ you know you can use MB+PO on the injury roll. It's still just as good à la carte, and with it C/MB is still very good vs AV9 and better than MB alone vs AV8. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2013 - 21:12 |
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| Jeffro wrote: | Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I would be against any changes to BlackBox rules that are not also incorporated into Ranked, in so long as the two divisions continue to have major tourneys that include them both. Folks may argue that they are different "training grounds" in the way matches are chosen... but they play by the same rules. Would the FUMBBL Cup then adopt the BlackBox rules, then?!? Or would Box teams in tourneys then have a different rule book when they enter tournaments?!
Love the effort everyone puts into the site, but keep your change |
I can't see the problem here. There is only one tournament that allows both R & B.
I don't think it will suddenly become so much easier to pimp team to Majors shape in the Box than in Ranked. Unless they are CPOMBers that is. |
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Gartch
Joined: Sep 07, 2012
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2013 - 21:19 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | Gartch wrote: | | I mean if claw can stack with nothing it's just completely useless, and the result will be the reign of AV9 teams. |
Note that Claw does still "stack" with POMB, in that if you roll 8+ you know you can use MB+PO on the injury roll. It's still just as good à la carte, and with it C/MB is still very good vs AV9 and better than MB alone vs AV8. |
Oh indeed, I misunderstood, my bad 
Thank for the clarification |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Dec 15, 2013 - 21:21 |
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I don't see many issues with special rules, etc. Blackbox is fumbbl specific. It is a "league" where Christer is a comishioner, and absolutely don't see any reason against house rulings.
We all know that the rules were not made for the bbox environment. So lets make this division work whatever rules are needed. Who just comes here can and should play in ranked and league with the "official" rules. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2013 - 21:27 |
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| Jeffro wrote: | Not sure if this was mentioned before, but I would be against any changes to BlackBox rules that are not also incorporated into Ranked, in so long as the two divisions continue to have major tourneys that include them both. Folks may argue that they are different "training grounds" in the way matches are chosen... but they play by the same rules. Would the FUMBBL Cup then adopt the BlackBox rules, then?!? Or would Box teams in tourneys then have a different rule book when they enter tournaments?!
Love the effort everyone puts into the site, but keep your change |
Yeah, but to be fair. The fact you can't choose your match ups in box, and you have to aim your team at being approachable in ranked, makes more of a difference to team builds than these rules changes (IMO).
If anything, adding morals to blackbox, will make the 2 divisions teams more similar, having these separate rules. |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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Dec 15, 2013 - 21:31 |
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| happygrue wrote: | | One practical question: What happens when box and ranked teams meet in the FC? |
I'd say they use the R (true) ruleset. The idea of these changes is to discourage the minmaxy builds, and I don't think that's an issue in majors.  |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2013 - 21:34 |
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| maysrill wrote: | I have long held the opinion that PO is a silly skill. It devolves positional play and accelerates player removal by too great a margin. It also lends the killers a great hiding place from their fellow killers: the ground.
Remove PO and nearly all the bashy problems go away. Claw+MB is a good counter to AV9 teams, but not an insurmountable one. It also makes the coding of the rules changes very simple. It's just another skill that doesn't get used. It could even be implemented site-side, by not uploading PO when games are created. |
agreed. this would be my vote - just remove PO. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Dec 15, 2013 - 21:36 |
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Badoek
Joined: May 17, 2009
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Dec 15, 2013 - 21:37 |
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I can't really say anything about what would work or not, the proposed changes aren't too much though so I'd agree with having a test run. |
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KenThis
Joined: Jun 28, 2007
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Dec 15, 2013 - 22:04 |
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Personally I like the clawpomb and play it a lot. I'd prefer it stayed as it is.
But I also respect that this is Christer's house and he can do what he likes.
I'd be careful of giving in to the pressure though.
Ranked is already an environment for people to avoid clawpomb.
If black box would be weakened due to pressure from a vocal group where would it end?
Min maxing would continue albeit in a probable different format and when people get tired of playing against that system, they'll then want that system to be changed.
"Big fleas have little fleas on their backs to bite them,
And little fleas have smaller fleas and so ad in finitum"
Although I never really understood what the supposed problem was with clawpomb at high tv. Sure it wins games but rats and elves win a hell of a lot more. Surely it allows a balance to stop a ridiculous proliferation of all super high tv teams (even clawpombers).
Nobody complains about high tv elves or tries to restrict where they play. There seems to be a natural divide. If you want to ball at high tv go to ranked. If you want to bash go to box.
I expect this problem would disappear if it was easier for ranked coaches to get games. So perhaps have some restricted middle option a box scheduler with watered down bash.
I recently played ogres for 25 games in box and got to about 1550tv and only met one clawpomb team which was fun, so where exactly is the problem?
Surely a more subtle approach would be to target those specific min maxed teams that cause such consternation.
And leave the rest of us clawpomb kill monkeys to play as we want... |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 15, 2013 - 22:14 |
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Excellent modification. The course of action taken will make blackboxing far more worthwhile.
I would probably have considered to go even further by additionally restricting the use of PO to blocks where the blocker is stronger than his foe (can't imagine beastmen, dwarfs or skaven piling on big guys, for instance). |
Last edited by Frankenstein on %b %15, %2013 - %22:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
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sann0638
Joined: Aug 09, 2010
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Dec 15, 2013 - 22:22 |
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I have never found a problem with box, personally. |
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Scaramanga
Joined: May 01, 2012
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2013 - 22:40 |
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| pythrr wrote: | | maysrill wrote: | I have long held the opinion that PO is a silly skill. It devolves positional play and accelerates player removal by too great a margin. It also lends the killers a great hiding place from their fellow killers: the ground.
Remove PO and nearly all the bashy problems go away. Claw+MB is a good counter to AV9 teams, but not an insurmountable one. It also makes the coding of the rules changes very simple. It's just another skill that doesn't get used. It could even be implemented site-side, by not uploading PO when games are created. |
agreed. this would be my vote - just remove PO. |
Another vote here !!!!
I dont care about pixels but i care about my fun. I have no fun watching someone playing alone with his team of cpomber. |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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Dec 15, 2013 - 23:27 |
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It's also funny that the people who call coaches in favour of nerfing clawplomb for pixelhuggers happily ignores that the team best suited for pixelhugging in the box right now is in fact clawplomb chaos.  |
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