Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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Oct 15, 2014 - 17:27 |
 
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/waves
hello! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 17:32 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: |
I already proposed a life insurance system for av7 players just so you weren't stuck in journeymen hell for a few games. |
Av7 teams are meant to be break easily, that's why they are made av7. There shouldn't be anything added that actually changes the rules of the game its self.
People just need to play with different races at high TV if they want diversity at high TV. Its as simple as that. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 17:33 |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Oct 15, 2014 - 17:44 |
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| dode74 wrote: |
Assuming I understood him correctly I doubt it'd have much effect as it would only matter when there is an odd number of teams. |
I guess I was intentionally vague to get my point across.
The most obvious thing to me to meddle with would be CR (which is the reward system).
As has been pointed out that isn't a factor for everyone. But that isn't the only way to adress issues. And if you wanted to do it right you may want to do more than just that.
What you have to keep in mind tho, is that any aspect of the meta game that is changed will appeal to some people. And some percentage of the community will be swayed to try a different race. In the end it isn't about having everyone change their teams.
If clawpomb was missing from box there would be also missing an aspect to it.
Also I'm a really strong believer that the amount of use of a race is a better reference point than any subjective criteria. The term 'bash' team in itself isn't 100% clear nor whether really all bash teams are overused. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Oct 15, 2014 - 17:52 |
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| Wreckage wrote: |
I guess I was intentionally vague to get my point across.
The most obvious thing to me to meddle with would be CR.
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I would have no problems with the CR formula being adjusted for less popular teams, as it would not affect the game itself, or limit the choices of people wanting to play specific teams.
It might not change the way many people play, but if it changes the views of 10% of coaches, then you will start to have shift in diversity that many coaches would prefer to see.
I don't particularly want to see any rule changes, or any way of limiting a coaches ability to choose the race they play, albeit a random element that suddenly and unexpectedly disallows Claw or such wouldn't cause me much of an issue. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 17:56 |
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| Garion wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: |
I already proposed a life insurance system for av7 players just so you weren't stuck in journeymen hell for a few games. |
Av7 teams are meant to be break easily, that's why they are made av7. There shouldn't be anything added that actually changes the rules of the game its self.
People just need to play with different races at high TV if they want diversity at high TV. Its as simple as that. |
I understand the intent for in game, but as far as team management goes, Av7 or worse can get pretty ugly.
And obviously there won't be drastic rule changes like that. But it would definitely save some people from themselves. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Oct 15, 2014 - 18:05 |
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If anything I think CR should figure more heavily into the matchmaking - all issues with CR aside (like how it seems like your rating is more reflective of your last 10-15 games, not your last 1000-1500 as if your skill level has changed drastically. Ask Brasky about his CR) I think it would be beneficial to be paired by skill level more so than TV. a 50-90 TV difference probably matters less than a 10 pt CR difference (150-140, 160-150, you get the idea) when it comes to evenness of a match. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Oct 15, 2014 - 18:08 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | If anything I think CR should figure more heavily into the matchmaking ... I think it would be beneficial to be paired by skill level more so than TV. |
That was tried before and it did not work. People want to play a broad range of coaches, not be punished for playing well or rewarded for playing badly. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 18:10 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: | | If anything I think CR should figure more heavily into the matchmaking ... I think it would be beneficial to be paired by skill level more so than TV. |
That was tried before and it did not work. People want to play a broad range of coaches, not be punished for playing well or rewarded for playing badly. |
Or in other words Legendary coaches are scare.
I can see that perspective but in instances where there 4 people, seeing the legend take on the rookie again is disheartening for everyone. |
Last edited by mrt1212 on %b %15, %2014 - %18:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Oct 15, 2014 - 18:11 |
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I think some of your guys just do not get it, the Black Box Division. Its purpose has always been the alternate for Ranked. Play what ever team you like, no one can dodge you, no picking and make what ever team you like.
So why is it a shock that most coaches play bashers? Bashers have a very hard time in Ranked getting matches once they get their killing groove on. Coaches who like bash love the Box!! it is the perfect Div for them. Why is that bad? I thought the Box was nirvana on FUMBBL?
This idea that diversity falls off the cliff at high TV in the Box 1800+ TV. Well the same dynamic happens in Ranked also. The main difference is the threshold for high TV in Ranked moves up to around 2100TV+. BUT the vast majority of races do not play at that level so the same 6 races show up even in Ranked at high TV.
Why are we not screaming to diversify Ranked High TV play also? the exact same issue is over there also.
*******
My idea for a fun idea in the box: At 22:00 BB time and 05:00 BB time the zombies invade the box and we bring back the birthday zombies for those draws.
The only way to solve diversity issues and so forth at high TV in the box is to have 10+ coaches activate with high TV teams at one time. That, IMO, seems to be a very tall hurdle to overcome. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Oct 15, 2014 - 18:15 |
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It's only a tall hurdle because you're holding out on us!
I presume that you're usually playing 02:00-06:00 based on your CDT time zone...
I am too!
But I never see you activate.
Stop holding out Tex! |
Last edited by mrt1212 on %b %15, %2014 - %18:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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monk12
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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Oct 15, 2014 - 18:16 |
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I'd be in favor of themed Box draws at specific intervals (e.g top of the hour) since that would add some extra variety to the Box without changing anything rule-wise; the people who really don't want to play Elf Hour can just wait for the other three draws. Mostly it'd be fun; I rather suspect it won't be enough to effect a culture change on its own.
Adjusting TV/inducements for races depending on how much they are played is the other interesting solution. In essence, it's a formalized acknowledgement that not all teams are equally competitive, and could bring them to a more equal footing without changing game rules. More available competitive teams results in more Box diversity, right?
Well, the question is this: Does the Box have low diversity because only a small selection of teams can be consistently competitive at higher TV, or does the Box have low diversity because a disproportionate number of bash coaches play the Box since they are unable to get games in Ranked?
Because if it's the latter, then it's an uphill battle to change the culture in Box, because Box is a result of the culture in Ranked, and that's a much more difficult problem to solve (since it isn't so much a "problem" as it is the fundamental conceit of Ranked.) |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Oct 15, 2014 - 18:28 |
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| monk12 wrote: |
Well, the question is this: Does the Box have low diversity because only a small selection of teams can be consistently competitive at higher TV, or does the Box have low diversity because a disproportionate number of bash coaches play the Box since they are unable to get games in Ranked?
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The answer is very easy!!  
Coaches who love bash left Ranked and went over to the Box. They claim because they hated "picking" but the reality was no body would "pick" them to play against so they cheered that nobody could dodge them again.
Now a large % of the Box coaches love to bash.
SO
Diversity was doomed from the get go. It was a Div that catered to maiming, killing and inflicting massive pain.
Thus
The coaches who did not like that left the Box.
Also
There are some thick headed coaches who keep plugging away in Box meta groups, playing sub optimal races for the box. More power to them!!! For they know best of all that it is a foolhardy quest to play those races and expect good results once you hit 1700+ TV. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Oct 15, 2014 - 18:30 |
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Now I hear some of you screaming at me: "Why all the negativity man!!"
Well, the box is what it is. In less Christer scraps the entire concept of the Box and reinvents an alternative. The Box will never, ever change. At its core, its foundation, is a Division that rewards bash. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 18:34 |
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It indulges bash, it doesn't explicitly reward bash unless being able to play games at all is a reward...which really stretches the meaning of the word reward. |
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