member1234
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 15, 2013 - 20:02 |
 
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So there are a ton of new team ideas around (even if the division is a fair ways away from even thinking of adding one) each looking for their own “stchtik”. (Hell, I even have a couple of ideas myself, but for now I’m trying to refrain from adding to the ton of stuff out there already!) I’m interested in what teams people think, in more general terms, there is room for. Looking at the existing rosters and suggestions it seems we are getting close to a “rule of two” of sorts, in that each stchtik or theme can get used in two teams, as a main part of the playstyle, as long as they are sufficiently unique.
For example, Gnomes and Horrors have bombs as stchtik and it’s unlikely, I assume, we’ll see a third with that as a big part of their playstyle when a more unique/under-represented style could be used istead. Strigs and Squigs have the powerful, but with blood lust, theme covered. Eshin and Skink have the fast, non-BG, runner style covered. I see these groups as pretty similar, but doing it in a unique way. And some teams have multiple themes. Horrors have bombs, regen and mass TTM, Eshin running and stabbing, Snotlings s1-3BGs and B&C. That’s not to say there isn’t room for teams built around similar concepts, just they need to mix it up and add something different. Look at Forest Gobbos, there’s nothing else really like them despite having stab as their “stchtik” and they’re hard to categorize.
So, with a fair bit of overlap, here’s what my opinionated self has been thinking there is room for in stunty.  (Agree/Disagree? Have I missed any? etc. Just what I've been mulling over, in no way meant to be a "This is what stunty needs!!%&^$one11!!" post  )
Races
- Halflings: With only the Chaos Halflings the stereotypical stunties are really under represented, especially compared to gobbos, even if it is much harder to get a theme/fluff for them. There is room for at least one “normal” team, i.e. one with a more standard build, and perhaps a second one with a more unique flavour.
- Undead: Sorely lacking with just Strigs. If any part of this posts veers towards the self-righteous "stunty needs THIS" mindset it's that it needs an undead team . Room for two more, again one more “standard” perhaps (Effigies style) and another more unique, which need not just be “Necro: stunty-style”
- Chaos: We have Choas Halflings, and two of the gods. Add in the final two and a Beastman Team (Bray Herd?) and done. Perhaps too many Chaos teams, but you could look at the four daemon teams as separate from the other two.
- Goblins: I think stunty is pretty well loaded with goblins for now. Though with Space for a B&C based team, Night Goblins could squeeze in.
- Skaven: We have two of the four clans, so Moulder and Pestilens would seem likely natural additions at some point.
- Elfish: Not Elves per se, but in that mindset. Really there’s just Fae. Tough to find fluff for such teams in stunty, but again room for a couple.
- Mixed Race: Probably contentious, but there is some room for it imo, a bit of unique flavour.
- Others: Anything new/unique that isn’t already in the leeg is good as long as it fits into the universe. As examples: Bray/Beasts, Nauticans, Zapped etc.
Playstyle
Plenty of Bash, Hybrid and Secret weapon based teams. The only real playstyle that seems to be under-represented is baller/agility types. Eshin and Skink pretty much are alone here, and they have their aspect well covered: non-BG, fast teams. (In fact they are two of the most overlapping teams out there, further reducing variety in playstyle) Though Fae come close they are more a hybrid type with the three Fenbeasts.
Agility in stunty is a tough one to deal with but I feel there’s room for at least two more teams here, but would need a unique approach and a way to balance them. They can’t just be another two runner teams, perhaps there is room for a heavily TTM based team (Horror have that as a secondary theme, so again, it would be two of them) and a passing type? (Thinking of a low MV, high AG, Diving catch team that would rely on TTM and passing/HMP to work? Maybe not, but something different)
Secret Weapon teams
Subset of playstyle, but there seems to be room for two of each using these as a stchtik perhaps, discounting the generalist Cheaters.
- Saws: Chaos Flings, (One other)
- Stab: Eshin, Forest Gobbo
- B&C: Snotlings, (One Other)
- Bomb: Horrors, Gnomes
Other (Main) Themes
- S1, 3BG: Fae, Gnoblar and Snotlings. Though the number of BGs can be viewed as a way to balance the rest of the team, so there’s no need to limit things.
- Regen: Two teams that fully utilise it is enough perhaps? (Nurglings and Horrors) Snotlings too partly, though not on all players. Though room for Undead?
- TTM: Just Horrors for now, and as a secondary theme only.
- High AV: Gnomes are, arguably, alone here so perhaps room for another (Artificers? Daemon Engines?).
- Low AV: Just Snotlings really now there at av5, considering av6 is “standard” in stunty. Maybe some room for a fragile team designed around avoiding getting hit? (The high AG, TTM team comes to mind. Or Perhaps Slaaneshi Daemons)
- Nega-Traits: With Strigs and Squigs taking up these, perhaps that is enough, at least in the format of having excellent players with the massive downside of Blood Lust.
- Skill Access: We have one S access Team (Gnomes) perhaps room for another, but not a high av one to take it another direction. P access on a passing based side?
- Stymie Teams: Nurglings and Forest Gobbos have this covered, with a nod to Gnoblar trappers.
- Hypno Gaze: Fae and Forrest Gobbos, though not really as a main theme. Perhaps room for one?
Anyways, that's it for my stream of consciousness. I finished reading through a lot of the threads on the Best new Team v2 topic and this is the result. |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Mar 15, 2013 - 20:17 |
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I think this is a very good job on deconstructing a team in Stunty.
In adding to some potential themes that would have been created with CRP...
Chainsaws: Chaos Flings and Cheaters only have 2. Really I think we can do better. 
Horny, Frenzied, Juggs!!!: Minos no longer exist in stunty. A bray team would be a natural fluff fit.
A 'Tactical' Team: Not 'Block' or 'Sure Hands' tactical... but a team with fend, some grab, and some mini-blitzers with wrestle instead of block 
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Mar 15, 2013 - 20:25 |
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| member1234 wrote: |
[*]Low AV: Just Snotlings really now there at av5, considering av6 is “standard” in stunty. Maybe some room for a fragile team designed around avoiding getting hit?
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A team with blanket foul appearance? |
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TheSyron
Joined: Jun 17, 2012
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Mar 15, 2013 - 20:33 |
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Good analysis.
Personally I'd love a stunty team with dump-off all over the place and some passing access. Not very pratical perhaps, but a lot of chaos (and mayhem with a spiked ball). |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Mar 15, 2013 - 20:43 |
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no...this is stunty...not "miniaturized ranked"...
we don't need to have "ranked equivalent" teams like "stunty chaos" teams or "stunty undead"...
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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pizzamogul
Joined: Jun 13, 2005
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Mar 15, 2013 - 21:02 |
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I will not rest until Norselings become reality! |
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RedDevilCG
Joined: Jan 09, 2010
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| Posted:
Mar 15, 2013 - 21:48 |
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| shadow46x2 wrote: | no...this is stunty...not "miniaturized ranked"...
we don't need to have "ranked equivalent" teams like "stunty chaos" teams or "stunty undead"...
--j |
We also don't need to have electricty, pancakes, or individually wrapped toothpicks....
More undead stunty would rock! |
Last edited by RedDevilCG on %b %15, %2013 - %22:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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member1234
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
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Mar 15, 2013 - 22:01 |
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Yeah, I didn't see anyone mention "stuntyising" LRB teams unless a post was deleted. Undead or Chaos as a general 'race' (even if made of several races), in the same way Goblins, Halfings, Humans, Skaven, etc. etc. are was more the thought, rather than taking the Undead team, or any specific team, itself and bootstrapping it to stunty. Undead are a pretty big part of the universe and just having Strigs when other races have multiple teams makes them seem like they are missing.
Good thoughts already though, I didn;t really add any themes that don't exist already. Av5, FA, fend team.... maybe would fit the tactical Grab, Wrestle and a smattering of SS mould. (But a nightmare against slow people). If only titchy negated tackle as well could have something interesting indeed, even at higher TV. A niche not really explored.  |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Mar 15, 2013 - 22:08 |
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| member1234 wrote: | | Yeah, I didn't see anyone mention "stuntyising" LRB teams unless a post was deleted.Undead or Chaos as a general 'race' (even if made of several races), in the same way Goblins, Halfings, Humans, Skaven, etc. etc. are was more the thought, rather than taking the Undead team, or any specific team, itself and bootstrapping it to stunty. Undead are a pretty big part of the universe and just having Strigs when other races have multiple teams makes them seem like they are missing. |
i'm not saying that you're looking for chaoslings, or skavenlings, or undeadlings...
but that's the problem is your opening analysis breaks down the stunty teams based off of LRB based guidelines..."chaos" bracket, "skaven" bracket, "elf" bracket...and then gone one step further by trying to fill out holes, by suggesting more "chaos" based teams or more "skaven" based teams..
so yeah, while your intention may not have been to do that...you've done just that...
the rest of your analysis is actually pretty cool, but to break the league down and base it off of a miniaturization of LRB teams really does the division a disservice, and only contributes to the stigma that this is an inferior product to the "big" leagues...
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 15, 2013 - 23:34 |
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<- agrees with Shadow on this one. Stunty is the best division on FUMBBL, and comparing it to the regular CRP teams does it a disservice.
That being said, Whatball has said he wants WFB style-esque teams, so I do see where you are coming from; just don't concentrate so much on the teams we already have seen elsewhere in bloodbowl, and look more to the fluff of the world.
While it might end up with the same teams, the process will be different and the viewpoint taken to create the teams will be different. |
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member1234
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
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Mar 18, 2013 - 15:46 |
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Ah, I didn't think of it that way. Those are the most prominent races in the old world, so it seemed natural to balance them out and discuss things from that point of view, perhaps it would have been better to open with the playstyle and stchtik perspective. I can see how that could pigeon hole ideas down one direction. There could be the danger of going too far the other way as well, seeing stunty as needing to be unique and struggling for fit awkward fluff into the league, just to have something different from standard races. Starting the other way around does seem apt, beginning with fluff that would make a good team or a design idea that would fit certain fluff, rather than saying "we need an Undead team" or "we need a never before seen race team" and looking for fluff/design to fit. I'd agree fully with:
| Nelphine wrote: | | While it might end up with the same teams, the process will be different and the viewpoint taken to create the teams will be different. |
I still feel there's room for teams under the "standard" races if abstracting away from just stunty LRB or stunty WHFB though, but that new teams need not be constrained to fill that space. The above wasn't fully an analysis of what should be added, just of what there is room for. (i.e., there's room for any and all unique/new races taken from the universe, but perhaps no more space for any gobbo teams) For example Bogies or Nauticans (Unique) getting as much consideration as Bray or Effigies, simply as the fluff fits and the team ideas are solid, and none of them are currently over-represented, not because a unique/chaos/undead team is felt to be needed at the time.
In any case I'm looking forward to seeing what new teams get considered once the final tweaks to the current teams are done. The more variation we get, in race, playstyle, look and stchtik, the better. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Mar 19, 2013 - 04:42 |
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I think Moulder Skaven with Ball & Chain and tons of Disturbing Presence and M access would be fun. |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Dec 21, 2013 - 08:11 |
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Was perusing old posts while bored and came across this *gem*.
Shadow's very valid 'stunty-LRB' criticism aside, member's 'theme'-based analysis seems spot on. There are only so many variations of team themes available, and Stunty is the division to explore them. Member's detailed breakdown of the existing themes and thematic availability is very encouraging.
Obviously the PFling rollout happened after the original post. PFlings clearly occupy the Halfling and 'Elf' niches.
I'd like to see more thought put into this. It seems to me that there are numerous potential teams that could fit multiple gaps in available themes. |
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Crook666
Joined: Oct 16, 2012
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Dec 21, 2013 - 11:14 |
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What we gotta do is taking away the Squigs and replace them with another race. Having 6 Mighty blow/st4/non-stunty players in the Leeg is just silly, no matter how bloodlusted/stupid they are.
We also should improve Eshin. They are a great team but almost unplayable at high Tv. |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Dec 21, 2013 - 22:56 |
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I don't think you'll ever get support for just discontinuing races... I agree squigs are unbalanced (they're the one stunty race I suspect would stand a chance against non-Leeg teams, at least at low TVs before the lack of G access starts hurting), but the answer is probably to balance them.
On Eshin, I still say giving the night runners G access would be a big boost to the team's competence. Or the stalkers. Both would probably be too much. |
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