HanZzz
Joined: Jan 17, 2010
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 Posted:
Feb 06, 2010 - 07:16 |
 
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I myself started out my human team with an ogre and I haven't regret it a moment since. Even if you are not into the bashy play style. The ogre helps you against that sort of play, which is rather prevalent in Ranked. It's perfect to put on the LoS and also, its high STR value will mean it will often tie up at least two players of your opponent. Meaning that generally, your core team will have to deal with less opposition. Also with thick skull and Av 9, it won't easily die at the same time, its higher strength may help you create room for your other players, preventing them from being tied up in dangerous positions. All this has made my ogre a rather solid investment and a key player of my team.
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=606365 |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Feb 06, 2010 - 07:48 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | | an ogre is essential to a human team. |
wot he said |
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lordweston
Joined: Nov 10, 2008
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Feb 06, 2010 - 14:50 |
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I have an amazon team in what was Unranked and also have a Dark Elf team I have started two pro elf teams but found the attrition rate for them far to high I was always two or three players down a match and it was just escalating they suffered something like 17 cas in 4 games between two sides. I use wood elves on the board game but have really struggled to get elf teams on here of the ground because of the high rate of casualties suffered due to low armour |
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HLY
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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Feb 22, 2010 - 00:12 |
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got too say, I just brought an ogre for my team, and he does help stop your players getting smashed too badly 
didn't do much thouhg, but he drew every block out there  |
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humppatoukka
Joined: Jan 03, 2010
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Nov 20, 2010 - 18:56 |
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I'll outrageously revive this old thread because I've been thinking of getting rid of my Ogre for good.
Tl;dr: Ogres are amazing but cost too much
Humans are(unlike someone said) NOT str 3 elves, they are far more then that. Their bread and butter, the blockers, have acces to str skills. That combined with above average MA means in the best case scenario they can pick their fights, and with guard, win. With a variety of different positionals they can also do a lot more then that. Sensible prices mean you can have a skilled human team with some specialist against some unskilled opponents.
Seizing and keeping the initiative is vital to the succes of a human team. Humans can neither play ball with elves nor take part in a brawl with dwarves. Unlike the elves who can position themselves with AG 4 quite carefree a human team needs to plan ahead its turns. AG 3 dodge tends to fail even with a reroll so a human team needs carefull positioning to minimize dodgerolls and maximize potential assists. Even then they tend to fail the odd GFI, 2 dice block or handoff. Thats where the essential rerolls come to play.
An ogre contributes a defensive anchor to a human team, it has some serious muscle and durability. It is only afther he gets guard skill that he's truly marvelous.
However, ogres dont really blitz well (with the lack of block), they cant handle the ball and sometimes they cant even move! Because of bonehead ogres tend to stay put as a ST 5 guard roadblock, and not being able to use RR's is the second real drawback that really keeps Ogres actions to minium.
This str 5, unreliable roadblock costs 120k+ to the teamrating wich could be well used elsewhere. Ogre can always be marked with a 50k lino and, even with the occasional stun or cas, thats an expensive trade. Not to mention that when you really need him to knock that lino out he tends to to just lose he's tacklezone and watch idle as the opposing team runs past him.
Wich would you pick: A human team with an ogre, or have the ogre replaced with a lino and add 70k worth of skills to the team? I'd opt for the second option. With a human team flexibility is the way to go, and reliability and skills both contribute to this, an expensive and unreliable slow basher doesn't.
(With only 32 games under my belt and with 17 of them with humans I'm really not one to give lectures. My perspective comes purely from playing and making observations on how to get the most out of my rookie team. My play is centered around building situations with a chain of players and counting odds - not to mention healthy opportunism. This has to influence my antipathy for big guys.) |
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RC
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
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Nov 20, 2010 - 19:00 |
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Get the ogre, and don't put him on LOS unless you are playing a none claw none bg team like DE or HE. He is way to expensive to be doing anything like that. Give him guard, break tackle and use him as a guarder. |
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"Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Nov 20, 2010 - 19:23 |
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Buy him, Ogres are vital to a human teams longevity. Also humans need all the Guard they can get to compete at a higher TR/TS. Humans teams strength is their versatility playing a running game against bashy teams and playing a ginding bashy game against elf opponent team. So get hurting  |
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Ancre
Joined: Aug 17, 2009
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Nov 20, 2010 - 23:27 |
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Buy him. Don't put him on the LOS, so he won't be occupied by a rookie lino, instead make him move next to a block BOB, two linemen, and generally blocking the way where you don't want your opponent's players to go (back in position towards the center of the pitch, chasing that catcher and his blitzer pals running away from the melee, whatever). He gets a lot more better with guard, and even more better with break tackle.
He is indeed not reliable though so you have to get used to it. If you need him to do something that doesn't roll dice (which is essentially moving somewhere) do this first in your turn, because if he bonehead you have other players that you can activate and work around his failure. On the contrary if you need him to do something that involves dice and a possible turnover (basically everything else) try and do it in the end of your turn. |
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humppatoukka
Joined: Jan 03, 2010
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Dec 04, 2010 - 11:04 |
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Now, on the hindsight, I'm starting to think that I might have been wrong.
After my last comment I ditched the niggling ogre and I've got to say - I really liked the way the team worked! When precision and reliability is the way to go, even a basic lino can be better then a bonehead killer - not least because you play against teams with lower rating.
Or so I thought.
Now after about 5 games my team has been grinded to dust. Not having a single win without the ogre and I can't even afford to rebuy lost positionals.
Currently I'm saving for a fourth blitzer and with 60k I could get him soon. However, in my next game I have only 9 players. I'm facing either a totally underdog recovery game or quite an underdog game that sets me back on my objectives. Ouch!
How did this all happen, I ask?
The ogre is unreliable, passive and sometimes manages to screw up precision game. But, in a bashy division like ranked and an unbashy team like humans, I guess that str5 av9 really means business. And by that I mean he acts as a threat and a shield between the opponent and your players - and in ranked you tend to need all the help you can get against bashing.
I'm still not a fan of Big Guys and in less bashier enviroments would probably forego them most of the time. But in ranked that spelled doom for my team who is now ready for retirement. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Dec 04, 2010 - 11:22 |
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An Ogre is always needed on a human team even in non bashy leagues. If your league is full of elves and rats then the humans strength would be in their ability to out bash the elves/rats. The Ogre comes with MB and St5 which means you only need 2 assists for him to roll 3 dice blocks on most opponents. He is also a very valuable shield when caging the ball and good for tying up elves and forcing them to make dodge rolls. The more bash the better in humans teams. 5 players with MB and Guard is alwasy a good thing, especially when one of them has ST5. |
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humppatoukka
Joined: Jan 03, 2010
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Dec 04, 2010 - 16:48 |
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| Garion wrote: | | An Ogre is always needed on a human team even in non bashy leagues. If your league is full of elves and rats then the humans strength would be in their ability to out bash the elves/rats... |
Thats true. However, against dodgy teams the ogre shows its true weakness aswell as you can't give ogre the responsibility of making the precious blitz. As you should be getting virtually no blocks against these teams ogre serves only as a MV 5 bonehead tacklezone who is very hard to remove. Compared to MV 6 reliable though potentially removable lino tz thats isn't much. Especially with the 120k price.
But I realize my views are a bit marginal, and since the downward spiral of my human team, you are probably right. I'm still not a friend of big guys nor afraid of them (hence my team of 9 players)! |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Dec 04, 2010 - 17:43 |
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| lordweston wrote: | | I normally am really vocally against big guys in blood bowl teams I dislike the whole smearing opposing players in to the turf |
Weirdo. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Dec 04, 2010 - 19:15 |
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| humppatoukka wrote: |
against dodgy teams the ogre shows its true weakness aswell as you can't give ogre the responsibility of making the precious blitz.
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I would never use my Ogre for blitzing with humans in any game unless I am winning by a large margin or have far more players left on the pitch than my opposing teams. The Ogres key resposibility for me at least is forcing elves to make dodges. Tying as many players up as you can, the more rolls you make elves make the more likely they are to fail something. If an elf does fail a dodge then there is every chance your ogre will have a player standing next to him at the start of your half, which you can then block as the last action in your turn hopefully getting a 3 dice block on the elf to increase the chances of getting that all important POW. |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Dec 04, 2010 - 19:35 |
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The purpose of an ogre on most teams is to tie in a couple of linemen every turn and to use his gard to assist the team blitz. He should absoltuely not be ever used to make the blitzes himself. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Dec 04, 2010 - 22:43 |
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| uzkulak wrote: | | The purpose of an ogre on most teams is to tie in a couple of linemen every turn and to use his gard to assist the team blitz. He should absoltuely not be ever used to make the blitzes himself. |
Unless it will be funny, that is. |
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