Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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 Posted:
Nov 17, 2016 - 01:06 |
 
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Today I suffered a forced "turn end" in the FUMBBL Cup Round 5.
It was not a normal "turn end" instead it was a time out after I had to be afk due to a phone call I received, that was when I wrote "afk" in the chat with me being then away from the keyboard.
This phone call lasted one minute, I did not count the clock obviously.
When I returned I wrote "back". Coach GaryGygax wrote then something about a beautiful girl that might have called me. After I red this I continued with my turn when *zang* I got timed out not much after the 4 minutes went by.
That was the moment when I noticed to my surprise that he wrote even more during my turn in the chat, telling me my phone call lasted 45 seconds and that he will prolong my turn by 45 seconds.
If I had been aware of this information, I had tried to improve my speed and finish the turn before he would find himself eligible to force a turn end after afk.
My question is:
Am I supposed to read the chat during my turn?
Is it an official rule that the time being afk can be counted by the opponent and therefore a turn end can occur even after I have been afk?
It never happened before to me so I thought that if I have to go afk, I can resume my turn without the fear of a turn end.
Anyhow it is a real pity that a FUMBBL Cup game was decided by such an occurance. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:12 |
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afk doesn't let you off the hook completely for time. Think of the forward implications. If you go AFK for 10 minutes, do you think you should be afforded 10 minutes? Where does it stop? |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:13 |
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So if you go afk for 45 seconds, you should get an infinitely extended turn? Of course not. Whether you read the chat is entirely your choice, there is no "supposed to". But your opponent acted perfectly fairly. |
_________________
 Nerf Ball 2014 |
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Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:15 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | afk doesn't let you off the hook completely for time. Think of the forward implications. If you go AFK for 10 minutes, do you think you should be afforded 10 minutes? Where does it stop? |
Good point: If I have to go afk for a few minutes, for how long will the turn time be prolonged? |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:15 |
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Ok, since some of the stuff I have said about this has been even called into question by admins I'll just quote Christers comment from Febuary 2016 on the matter.
| Christer wrote: | A couple of quick points regarding timeouts:
1. The rules do not require you to warn your opponent about a timeout. It is, however, very common for people to do so as a courtesy.
2. If someone is away from the keyboard, this does not automatically make it against the rules to time them out.
3. Timing out someone who is disconnected is against the rules.
That being said, there are complexities when it comes to points 2 and 3. The rules state that a person is considered disconnected after 15 minutes of AFK. Clearly, this is far beyond the standard 4 minute rule. On top of this, the FFB client and server does not currently detect disconnections very well (there are technical reasons for why this is the case - TCP/IP is hard), which means that a proper disconnection often keeps the turn timer running. "Proper" in this context means the connection between the client and the server is cut off rather than a game window being closed.
In an ideal world, the FFB client would be patched to deal with disconnections in a conclusive way. That would simply make the rule "If it's possible to click the timeout button, it's allowed according to the rules". Very simple.
With that not being the case, the staff needs to make a decision either way which in most cases comes down to talking to the two coaches involved and coming to a mutual agreement with what to do (there is no way to "undo" a timeout). If no agreement can be made, the staff member will make a call and decide whether or not to cancel the game or expect the coaches to finish the game. |
https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=27611&start=30 |
Last edited by Wreckage on %b %17, %2016 - %01:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:17 |
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Dominik, from a technical point of view you can force a clock stop by closing the client. |
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Gary_Gygax
Joined: Aug 08, 2003
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:17 |
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Fumbbl Cup game was decided when you selected that crappy Star with inducements 
Apart jokes...
That is the chat part in question:
<Dominik> afk
<Dominik> phone
<Dominik> back
<Gary_Gygax> ok, 45 seconds
<Gary_Gygax> fast call =)
<Gary_Gygax> I hoped she was a beautiful girl calling you
<Gary_Gygax> counting 45 secs from now
<Dominik> hm
<Dominik> didnt read the chat
<Gary_Gygax> 45 secs
<Gary_Gygax> the time of your call
Just to clarify, I already warned the turn before about using timeout next time.
Then my opponent went AFK with that speedy call that lasted exactly 45 seconds (I could be wrong, maybe 46...) so timeout was selected after 4 min 45 secs
Debate is on, but I'm totally sure I didn't break any rules or common sense of sportsmanship |
Last edited by Gary_Gygax on %b %17, %2016 - %01:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:18 |
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| Dominik wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: | | afk doesn't let you off the hook completely for time. Think of the forward implications. If you go AFK for 10 minutes, do you think you should be afforded 10 minutes? Where does it stop? |
Good point: If I have to go afk for a few minutes, for how long will the turn time be prolonged? |
It's at the opposing coaches discretion. If it were me you could go on a week long cruise for all I care, I'll be here. Unless I know it gives me a psychological advantage  |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:18 |
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| Dominik wrote: | | it is a real pity that a FUMBBL Cup game was decided by such an occurance. |
That pity is less real than you may presume, Dom, more so that at least 2 of the 3 TDs from your opponent have clearly been caused by your own brain farts. |
_________________
There is always Sneaky Git. |
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awambawamb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:20 |
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you went afk for 45 seconds, he added 45 seconds to your turn. fair and square IMHO |
_________________
"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"
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Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:20 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | | Dominik, from a technical point of view you can force a clock stop by closing the client. |
I will do so every f time it happens again. This makes games on FUMBBL a tad more unpleasant for everyone but it is the only way to stay safe if Gary_Gygax did not violate rules here. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:22 |
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Another hint: Rules decisions aren't made on the forum . |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:23 |
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It's not the only way to stay safe. You could play for less than 4 minutes.
And closing the client would have made no difference in this case. You would have been away for an amount of time (45 seconds for the call plus the time taken closing and opening the client), that amount of time would have been added to your turn, you would have exceeded that and been timed out. Changing nothing. |
_________________
Nerf Ball 2014 |
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Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:24 |
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| awambawamb wrote: | | you went afk for 45 seconds, he added 45 seconds to your turn. fair and square IMHO |
The problem is: The one who goes afk is usually in a rush to sort things out. He does not know for how long he really was afk.
He is therefore expected to wait and read what the opponent calculated as prolongation and submit to it? |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Nov 17, 2016 - 01:24 |
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| Dominik wrote: | | This makes games on FUMBBL a tad more unpleasant for everyone but it is the only way to stay safe if Gary_Gygax did not violate rules here. |
You're begging the question you're asking the community, Dom. |
_________________
There is always Sneaky Git. |
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