| Poll |
| Would you like playing Grey Box games? |
| Yes, it would be a challenge playing. |
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17% |
[ 7 ] |
| No, I think I have enough options for playing even games (Leagues, Ranked, etc) |
|
74% |
[ 29 ] |
| Other (see below) |
|
7% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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 Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 06:42 |
 
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| neoliminal wrote: | | koadah wrote: |
I guess that Jervis never played on Fumbbl.
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No, he never did.
And for the record, he never shut it down, which he could have. He wants people to play Blood Bowl. In his opinion it's the best game he will ever make. I think we can all get behind that. |
Ok, I will throw myself on THAT grenade.
How would he have shut it down? You mean GW, no, as the owners of the rights? No? Or maybe he would have handed the job over to an unelected unrepresentative committee who would just change all the rules around and introduce something as completely broken and unbalanced as CRP (well, the CLAWPOMB bit at least) in order to drive away most of the players? That might do it, yes.
Beer anyone? |
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neoliminal
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 07:12 |
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| pythrr wrote: | | Beer anyone? |
I'll take one.
And for the record; if GW wanted this site shut down, they could do it. Different discussion, not my fight, but you, sir, are wrong even if you give me beer.
Oh, and if any mod is reading still, please just lock this godforsaken thread please.
But let pythrr have the last word. |
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<BBRC>retired</BBRC><NAF>founder, 1st, 2nd Presidents</NAF><BB-Developers>retired</BB-Developers><Game-Developer>active</Game-Developer> |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 07:27 |
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All this foolishness aside, there's little or no appeal to this idea.
I'm pretty much an average coach -- I've been around a while and know how to play the game, but there are some things I'm not good at (in my case, patience on defense is a big one) and some things I'm usually not going to do even if I know they're good strategically (in my case, stalling.) If I face off against a bunch of rookie coaches making rookie mistakes, who I'm not going to lose to without significant bad luck. I've beaten some of the best coaches on FUMBBL, but it's taken significant good luck to do it. I know this, and I don't mind. So implementing CR in the box wouldn't much affect me either way... I'd get a lot of even matches anyway.
If I were a good player, a box that included CR would be an exercise in frustration. Regularly faced off against teams that outclass mine, I wouldn't be outplayed -- I'd just be overwhelmed. The other side's roster would have such advantages that, unless things broke just right with the dice, it would be a very frustrating game for me. And god forbid I wanted to play a team with a non-optimal build for fun... how pointless an exercise would that be? Sure, battling against the odds on occasion might be entertaining, but the key words there are "on occasion". If I have the skill and put in the effort to get really good at the game, I want to win more often than not.
Now, if I were a bad player, including CR in box calculations would be massively disheartening ALL of the time. First of all, I'd have to build a veteran team in order to even get "even" matches, and given that many rookie players struggle to keep players alive, that makes the learning curve steeper. But let's say I accomplish it... every game, either I win because my team is clearly bigger than the opposing team, and I can't take any pride in my performance, or I lose despite that, and I feel stupid.
At that point, what is even the point of playing? No matter what I do, the system is eventually going to shunt me back to .500 anyway. |
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Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 07:45 |
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Rooke
Joined: Jun 02, 2006
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 07:54 |
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If we're gonna get to a chess analogy, I'll tell you this: Playing a much stronger opponent isn't always fun, but it's how you become a better player. I thought after cleaning house in a season of my table top league this game didn't have a lot to teach me. I stood (because it was too painful to sit after some of those ass kickings) corrected.
Luckily, if you happen to play some of the top coaches here, a good number of them are willing to take some time to teach you a few tricks of the trade.
I remember spec'cing a match between an old vet here and a total newbie not too long ago, and I played the same newbie a short while later. I was pleasantly surprised to see him apply a lot of the things he learned.
To the point; enjoy your wins, learn from your losses, and remember it's just a game that you get to share with some fellow enthusiasts in an awesome community. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 08:03 |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 09:33 |
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| neoliminal wrote: | | pythrr wrote: | | Beer anyone? |
I'll take one.
And for the record; if GW wanted this site shut down, they could do it. Different discussion, not my fight, but you, sir, are wrong even if you give me beer.
|
Err..... read again. I did not say GW could not shut it down. I said Jervis could not shut it down. GW own the rights; he doesn't. I thought that was simple enough, no? |
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Muktar
Joined: Dec 02, 2012
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 09:59 |
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Here is my perspective on this. Right now blackbox has a black hole of death. If your still developing team's tv gets to be about 1400-1600, it is inevitable you will face the large number of tv twinks and all of the sudden your developing team is faced against about 6 cpombers and the rest new players (or better jmen). You watch over half of your team by the end of it with serious injuriesdeaths in which you will most likely have to fire them and use jmen to attempt to build up again, to only face that team again and do the same thing, over, and over, and over. Yes, people say, "use ranked if you don't like this!' Getting ranked games is sooo hit/miss. If you play a team that has any lvl of bash, your team will almost never get the chance to play.
While I don't think that there should be anymore choices for leagues, the matching for blackbox should be recalculated so that people can have actual fun. Not just one sided fun. Then again, till they make a true fix for cpomb, those teams will cause more attrition to players more so than just their teams. No one wants to play a team full of jmen.
*puts on flame retardant* |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 11:16 |
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Yep, this has to go bye bye now.
One last thought. The biggest problem with fair match ups (at the moment) with blackbox is team builds.
There are a lot of extremely mediocre coaches with horrifyingly good CRs, due finding a build that works well at a certain TV and sitting there.
For me this isn't what BB should be about, and it gives newer players very little chance, when the game isn't about building the best team you possibly can, but building it at the most efficient for it's race. |
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