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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 18:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
this thread has really gone off the rails. Can we have a new one in which people can put their full wish list on, and that be it? maybe submit our wish list to an admin who has locked the thread, then they update it over time, so it doesnt turn in to this....


If you lock it, people can't add their ideas to the end. Ideas spread around the forum are harder to pull together.
Feel free to create it Garion.

My initial ideas are a few pages back.

Apologies folks.

Though, maybe my interest waned after learning that we'd have to cut back to 1350. Twisted Evil

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Cyrus-Havoc



Joined: Sep 15, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 18:25 Reply with quote Back to top

I would like to know how game statistics will be handled,as a grid filling coach it is important to me.

I think the cap at 1350 is a bit low & might encourage the 2 stars and rookies style of build.

Will be interesting to see what else is changing, I will be sad to see the end of some races if that happens.

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Traul



Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 18:49 Reply with quote Back to top

It looks there could be a space for a brawl-like tournament format just after redrafting instead of at season end. Don't know whether that would catch on with coaches, though.
bennyprofane



Joined: Sep 10, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 18:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
Can we have an option to have this new scheduler that is being created usable in league. I would very much like this for Secret League Open.


I've hardly played on FUMBBL in years, but when I did more recently it was for the fun of the Secret League.

So, a big support for this proposal from me...
Wolvassa



Joined: Dec 23, 2019

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 19:04 Reply with quote Back to top

For what my opinion is worth, I like the sound of what has been proposed for seasons and collapsing [B] and [R] into [C]. Redrafting to ~1350 seems reasonable, it isn't like the bloat loving teams are unplayable at that range, and 15 games is quite a lot of time to grow. Much higher than that and an end of season 2 team would be much better than an end of season one team, which kinda defeats the point? I can even see the possibility of me playing in a tournament with this system, whereas as it is now I'll probably get a team tournament readyy at some point around the release of BB2028.

I can see this being annoying if you actually have historied teams in R&B, but I don't. I like the idea of a previous teams tab for that personally, I get that it isn't a solution for everyone though.

As a relatively casual player, I don't really care which division I'm playing in (11 players is 4 too many!), I just want to find a game. If it was 2 minutes past the draw, I'd look on gamefinder, if it was just before a draw I'd probably go for a lucky dip. It would be nice not to need to have two teams just for a different matchmaking option. (As an aside, I know that it is contentious, but I kinda figured CR measured decisions taken off the pitch as much as those taken on it, so I never cared too much. Obviously better coaches are often better in both arenas, and both are valid skills.)

I suspect that players like me are a much more common use case than people who would pick and choose in order to build the 'best' team, and then use that killer team specifically to snipe at better coached hardcore teams Wink ; and I suspect that doing that would be a lot of effort for not much reward.

Depending on the numbers, limiting first season teams to playing each other might get frustrating in a similar way to the rookie team protection, which I am assuming it would replace (if this is a restriction Christer chooses to go for). It would probably still be worth it, just a thought. Or just keep rookie team matchmaking rules and the first vs 2nd season thing might not be too big a deal?

Tl;dr: I like the current thinking Razz
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 19:45 Reply with quote Back to top

bennyprofane wrote:
Garion wrote:
Can we have an option to have this new scheduler that is being created usable in league. I would very much like this for Secret League Open.


I've hardly played on FUMBBL in years, but when I did more recently it was for the fun of the Secret League.

So, a big support for this proposal from me...


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

yeah for sure this ^ we need that scheduler in SL.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 19:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Traul wrote:
It looks there could be a space for a brawl-like tournament format just after redrafting instead of at season end. Don't know whether that would catch on with coaches, though.


That's the good thing about Brawls - they are weekly draws so no matter when you hit End of Season there should be one there waiting for you to join if you so desire.

The brackets will need to be adjusted to reflect the changes but the structure and mechanics are there already.

Now for Majors, integrating those will need more careful consideration as those are scheduled to start at specific times of the year. It'll be a bummer for some coaches if they don't spend their 15-20 odd games building for the Major and then calamity strikes on game 19 but them's the breaks.

Some folks are drawn to tourneys so long as they're being drawn so I don't think Demand is going to be an issue as much as finding an adjusted format to fit Seasons and the teams that are bound to playing in them.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 20:01 Reply with quote Back to top

In regard to the 2nd blog post by Christer, this part:

"The way the system is written in the rule book seems to be based on leagues which have on the order of 10 coaches, separated into two "divisions" for league play. This puts them at 4 games or so per season, plus the play-off (up to 2 games as written). It is also essentially designed to let these teams maintain 1-2 key players with a skill or two to the next season but not more than that.

I can't really predict how TV through skills will be in the new system. There's simply too many changes for that. However, I am fairly certain that the amount of gold given out as winnings will be increased (from a rough average of 40k to roughly 70k). This will have a big impact on treasuries at the end of the season, and remember that treasury is maintained through the re-drafting."

The thing that must be considered is your own propensity for replacing players below the threshold of 11. Unless I missed a rule about having to hire players if below 11, the utility of the take from each game, at some point, shifts from replacement of players for the season to stuffing the take into a sack for repurchase of survivors at end of season.

Consider losing 1x Line Elf per game to perm. At a certain point, what purpose does replacing them serve if you're X games away from end of season? I might be a little foggy due to the coffee not hitting yet but...it feels like you're going to pay twice - once in season, once in pre-season when rebuying them to get to 11 players.

What I'm getting at is that perhaps it'll be best to just roll with some punches on the cheapest players getting smooshed that serve as journeymen and look forward to next season.

If I missed journeymen speculation can someone lend an assist?
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 20:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Cyrus-Havoc wrote:
I would like to know how game statistics will be handled,as a grid filling coach it is important to me.

I think the cap at 1350 is a bit low & might encourage the 2 stars and rookies style of build.

Will be interesting to see what else is changing, I will be sad to see the end of some races if that happens.


I feel like a clean slate for grids is gonna be the order because of how different the game is gonna be going forward. If the old grids could be maintained for posterity, that'd be fantastic. I hear ya as someone sitting at ~92% of grid filling.
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 20:45 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:

...Writes some good points...

If I missed journeymen speculation can someone lend an assist?


I am not aware of the Journeymen rules being included in BB2020... they may be?

However I am aware that there is a temp retirement rule in which you can sit a player out for injury until the next season. Counts against your Roster of 16 but not for your TV. I would speculate that the extra winnings available and hence you're cash rich, J-Men may not be in BB2020?
stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 20:56 Reply with quote Back to top

When enough data gets gathered, it might be worth looking at race specific maximum redraft values / time periods. Maybe something like ogres gets a bit longer to grow and woodelves less so as they tend to skill up quicker.
I know I don't tend to have much fun with Chaos, say, until I get toward 1500
Uber



Joined: Mar 22, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2020 - 21:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't know what the cap number should be, or how one could find that magic number, but if the end goal is to allow for the most diverse metagame, then I'm a happy camper.

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 04:11 Reply with quote Back to top

[quote="paradocks"]I'm very sad thinking about how the Seasons rule could destroy the fluff in the game.
..
My favorite teams to play are the clunky 15 year old ones with hobgoblins that have pass block and shadowing. Crafting lore for your loyal players and franchises is just as much fun as the actual rolling of dice for me.
..
[\quote]
Yes this was always the issue I had, and I think partly why seasons wasn’t included before. You can’t fit in many years old players cultivated over a game a week or month in a 1350tv cap. And indeed less incentive to fluff a player.

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Felix17



Joined: May 23, 2019

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 04:41 Reply with quote Back to top

ClayInfinity wrote:
mrt1212 wrote:

...Writes some good points...

If I missed journeymen speculation can someone lend an assist?


I am not aware of the Journeymen rules being included in BB2020... they may be?



Journeymen are still there, covered on page 38. Essentially unchanged; a 0-16 or 0-12 player who will bring you up to 11 players available for the game, with Loner (4+)
Mattius



Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 17:28 Reply with quote Back to top

For what it is worth I've updated my thoughts. Keep in mind I love building up teams and it's one of my main motivators to play many days.


I agree seasons are a must, I don't want to play teams that all have mv8 blodge as standard. However, I do propose a softer seasons approach is considered, ie no cap and at least 20 games per season. Clearly after 2-3 seasons, if it's madness and chaos are dominating every major (still) then bring in the caps!


1) The new rules suggest a cap is only at the discretion of the commissioner. Hence in the spirit of strictly following the rules, no cap would seem more appropriate. This was the same with PO in bb2016. PO was an optional rule and as such was not introduced.


2) 15-20 games I really don't see as being so long. Yes some teams get to TV 2000+ in 20 games. But these have to be a minority? Especially in the box. Getting an optimal team normally takes 40+ games from my experience. You spend ages on getting it right then players die anyway.


3) A cap and small seasons basically encourage min maxing to extreme levels. I'd take a bloaty chaos team over a min maxed UW team any day. Min max Is a far worse player experience for new coaches rather than high TV is.


4) The hard caps and limited games in seasons in a way punishes worse coaches as they will need more time and games to create a competitive team. They will by default get less spp per game. I don't see the need to worry much about a level playing field when we are playing a TV matching environment (which by default levels the playing field)


5) With the 20k re hire cost, no matter how much money a team brings into next season. They will have to fire players. The days of optimal teams are over with this rule on its own.


6) No cap will allow more incentives to win, save money and care about prize pool in tourneys.


7) It's the elephant in the room, but with BB3 around the corner, fumbbl will need to think carefully about how to attract and retain players. I would guess BB3 would have seasons based on time rather than games played. This could be a more attractive proposition to many players.

Cool there are going to be some really weird matches around the 1350 mark. With no cap at least this weird zone will be mixed around a bit.


I said it before and will say it again. Either way I do trust Christer, I know no matter what he does, someone somewhere will be upset. It's a free game and no one really has the right to dictate how it should be. But I hope my thoughts may be considered with everyone else's.
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