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Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 22, 2021 - 15:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Way hay and up they rises! Anyone have thoughts on building Renegades with BB2020 rules?

Linemen Skill access was overpowered and now the Ork/Skaven seem more useful since they are a lot closer to linemen now.

Not sure the new Thrower is worth it. Maybe for Leader and One the Ball?

Elf still seems the best carrier. Easy Blodge and can then safe upp for +MV and/or get Sure Hands.

Skaven as a safety with Wrestle, Tackle and Strip.

Does the team now need a Big Guy Blitzer? Rogre is more reliable at the risk of hitting our own team. Troll has vomit so we never have to risk turnover.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 22, 2021 - 19:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Wait, Vomit doesn't risk turnover? I thought it was 1 in 6 to hit you, and therefore 1 in 36 to take you down. Doesn't that end your turn because the moving player was knocked down?

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amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 22, 2021 - 19:56 Reply with quote Back to top

it does- it's not quite as good as stab, but close. As risky as a 2+ dodge with re-roll
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 22, 2021 - 20:28 Reply with quote Back to top

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/NryQj9cL6rNK143Y.pdf

It does not cause a turnover, unless the player is in possession of the ball (as the player is placed prone and not knocked down).

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Halfabrain



Joined: Jan 20, 2018

Post   Posted: Jan 24, 2021 - 23:52 Reply with quote Back to top

If you can build all of that in the 15 games you'll get before having to redraft then I'll be amazed. Every build will be virtually the same.
Blodge on the elf with maybe a bit of variety after that and the rest will get block with guard on the big lads.
Its possible the mino or rogre will see some more use as building a reliable killer will be much harder.
I think the orc was already well used for the high AV but I think you're right that more people may use the rat now because why not though if you skill him up for use as a safety he won't live long enough to get many more.
Yes, it is all doom and gloom.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 24, 2021 - 23:56 Reply with quote Back to top

What will we do with a Chaos Renegade team? Stop playing it.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2021 - 14:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Halfabrain wrote:
If you can build all of that in the 15 games you'll get before having to redraft then I'll be amazed. Every build will be virtually the same.

I agree they will all be virtually the same. It is not a question of building it in 15 games. You get to keep your best two or three players and everyone else gets reset.

The question is who are the best players to keep? A Blodge ball carrier; a Wrestle/Tackle Sacker and a Killer were my thoughts.

Who will be the best killer? Block on a big guy or Mighty Blow on a lineman hoth require a secondary skill pick.


Halfabrain wrote:
Yes, it is all doom and gloom.

Only if you let it be!
Halfabrain



Joined: Jan 20, 2018

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2021 - 17:28 Reply with quote Back to top

I did quite well with a +ma break tackle mino, kept him for at least 30 games or so. Makes a great blitzer/safety, if only because people are very scared of him. He gets a frenzied 3d with 1 assist, don't need block or tackle then and he already comes with mighty blow.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2021 - 17:35 Reply with quote Back to top

The same as before except slightly less efficiently.

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ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 07:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Chaos Renegades under 2016 rules were never going to win many games if you played them for fluff (i.e. 3 big guys etc). They were a great Box Min/Max team if you played them that way.

In 2020, they're intended to be fluff orientated and not Tier 1. So if you enjoy the craziness of 3 big guys, random skills and playing them like the Chaos All Stars, they're great fun.

But one persons fun is another persons angst
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 08:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Thrower is worth it. Somebody needs to the Ball Carrier. Leader is a but of a waste as a skill... it is OK for the min-max issues but player efficiency is more important than the min-max most of the time.

The Elf is the SACKER. Your best Option to LEAP in there and WRESTLE away or STRIP BALL the Ball.
He cannot be the Ball Carrier and SACKER.

The Orc's AV is enough reason to use him. He is maybe the best player to pair with a Troll (or other Big Guy) due to that durability.




Lyracian wrote:
Way hay and up they rises! Anyone have thoughts on building Renegades with BB2020 rules?

Linemen Skill access was overpowered and now the Ork/Skaven seem more useful since they are a lot closer to linemen now.

Not sure the new Thrower is worth it. Maybe for Leader and One the Ball?

Elf still seems the best carrier. Easy Blodge and can then safe upp for +MV and/or get Sure Hands.

Skaven as a safety with Wrestle, Tackle and Strip.

Does the team now need a Big Guy Blitzer? Rogre is more reliable at the risk of hitting our own team. Troll has vomit so we never have to risk turnover.
neubau



Joined: Nov 12, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 11:38 Reply with quote Back to top

leap isn' really an option in 2020 anymore, isn't it?

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Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 15:12 Reply with quote Back to top

neubau wrote:
leap isn' really an option in 2020 anymore, isn't it?

It is an option but Dodge & 2 'eads is going to be better.


Catalyst32 wrote:

The Elf is the SACKER. Your best Option to LEAP in there and WRESTLE away or STRIP BALL the Ball.
He cannot be the Ball Carrier and SACKER.

I think the Elf might have to take both rolls! Need to play some games and see how development works out.
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 16:45 Reply with quote Back to top

If dodge is the best they can do, then amazons are better. Amazon linewomen can pick armor for 10k. It means av8 amazon linewoman costs less in tw than a renegade with dodge. Obviously a linewomen can do better things, like picking wrestle, still it indicates that renegade may have lost the edge.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 16:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Basically the Chaos Renegades lack too many core skills and they have to play 15 games just to be on same level as strong starting tier 1 teams and then fire some players, so, why bother?
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