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Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 04:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Nelphine wrote:
the in game reason is that if your opponent knows you will foul on turn 16, then they may choose not to score, rather than being fouled.

always turn 16 foul, in case the fear of it makes your opponent choose a bad decision and allows you to win or draw, where otherwise you would not.



That never works though. So don't do that and expect it to work. For either Coach.
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 09:26 Reply with quote Back to top

lol - score as often as you can

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Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 09:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
"Fouling on Turn 16 is a sign of respect" is a Blood Bowl Forums Troll saying that many have adopted much like "kill all men's". It IS NOT the etiquette of the game.

...which leads to the whole point of there not being any "etiquette" regarding fouling in the first place. Just individual opinions.

You're free to have your own belief regarding turn 16 fouling, but trying to present it as some sort of universal understanding (when it clearly is not) is just wrong. Deal with it.

Catalyst32 wrote:
Just because you are not civilized does not make it any less the standard etiquette of the game. Barbarians rarely follow the established etiquette because they do not know it Like it or not.

In order to be civilized in the first place you need a set of WRITTEN rules first. You know, THE LAW?

Ironically enough we have your own admission that the "proper etiquette is an UNSPOKEN RULE". I guess that's handy, because you don't need to bring out any proof to back up your opinion, but in this particular case works against your whole argument of you being oh-so-civilized person and us being some soap-lacking barbarians.

Also, I find it funny you call people barbarians and talk about etiquette. At this point I am pretty sure you're the one trolling here.

Catalyst32 wrote:
So if you want to be invited to play Blood Bowl more often you should consider playing with proper etiquette INSTEAD of doing things that encourage others to NOT play YOU or to NOT play anyone AT ALL.

[...]

You would think they don't want to isolate themselves from the only friends they do have. Their online friends.

There are a plenty of people out there who undoubtedly will be OK with turn 16 fouling. People I played with had no problems with me fouling on turn 16 in our local league/tournament. Nor will you have any issues finding players in Blood Bowl 2 in general.

At the end of the day it's down to individual preference. If someone is going to be upset because you foul on turn 16, then perhaps it's better to avoid playing with such people. Who knows what other alterations to the in-game rules they also have in store?
Medon



Joined: Jan 28, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 10:28 Reply with quote Back to top

This would actually be quite a cool addition to the prayers of Nuffle table (variant of the anti-stalling prayer). Anti-stalling-for-fouls: If is compulsory to foul if a downed opponent is within reach.

And I’m my view this kind of ‘anti-fouling etiquette’ (if it would exist) totally breaks the game. We are role playing a bunch of bloodthirsty maniacs. These maniacs can barely withhold themselves during the match because there is a risk of being sent off. But the fans love a good foul. Hey wait… in turn 16 there actually is no risk of being sent off as the match is over anyway. A free foul! Raaaargh stomp stomp.

So: Not fouling in turn 16 is bad sportsmanship and bad role playing.
mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 10:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
Just that it is not appropriate etiquette to Turn 16 Foul when it is a meaningless foul.


Just because something is meaningless to you doesn't mean it must be meaningless for me or others.

Etiquette is no law anyway, it is
Quote:
the set of conventional rules of personal behaviour in polite society, usually in the form of an ethical code that delineates the expected and accepted social behaviours that accord with the conventions and norms observed by a society, a social class, or a social group.


So it's a group thing. And I just don't see a majority of coaches opposing a gud and healthy stomp to end a game. Not in this discussion, neither on previous discussions. There are always some coaches who dislike them deeply and others who celebrate them.

So I advise my own players to try to be as safe as possible at T16. 100% more healthy for them.

However a well documented etiquette of social internet for instance is not to SCREAM in forums. Instead of being poignant it's most times perceived as unreadable or trolling. You are obviously free to have your own belief regarding screaming, and you especially often do it. Are you now a Barbarian? Razz
So why demand or define an etiquette if you are not willed to follow a way more established one yourself?

Often the concept of an "etiquettes" seems to be abused and only relevant if they are of gud use for one side anyway. OP's example seems to be one of these cases (Even worse because that one must be simply made up).

But regarding "Etiquette" on the pitch Matt made a gud point already anyway.

TheDakka wrote:

One purpose of the rules is to avoid endless debates based on personal opinions and preferences.


Which includes not only BB rules but fumbbl rules.

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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 11:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Interestingly the OP did not ask about T16 fouling at all...
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 12:09 Reply with quote Back to top

There are threads of people complaining about t16 fouling too from over the years.

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 12:12 Reply with quote Back to top

I think a lot of people would prefer you to score as much as possible as at least they get to receive another drive.

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Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 12:16 Reply with quote Back to top

garyt1 wrote:
I think a lot of people would prefer you to score as much as possible as at least they get to receive another drive.

Certainly, but the whole idea is to deny the opponent the opportunity to score or give him as few turns as possible.

That said, I would be interested in seeing a special format, in which you are obliged to score as much as possible as fast as possible. Just because I am curious how it'd work out.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 13:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Bellenrode wrote:

That said, I would be interested in seeing a special format, in which you are obliged to score as much as possible as fast as possible. Just because I am curious how it'd work out.

I guess it could be hard to write specific rules about that.
I mean, an anti-stalling rule can reasonably work, but how would you define: "as fast as possible" with a rule?
As an aside, I think that reducing the half turns from 8 to 7 would slightly reduce the static stalling and would promote a bit the passing game (because with fewer turns to score passing the ball becomes necessary). Currently, 8 turns per half favour the bash & grind running score.
mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 13:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Bellenrode wrote:

That said, I would be interested in seeing a special format, in which you are obliged to score as much as possible as fast as possible. Just because I am curious how it'd work out.


You can add points for scored TDs in your league.
But could also add points for CAS Twisted Evil

Vermi wrote:
Interestingly the OP did not ask about T16 fouling at all...


True. But the made up etiquette from OP's opponent inspired quite some pondering about etiquette in bb itself.

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 16:54 Reply with quote Back to top

My take: an agreement not to foul or not to run up the score, explicit or tacit, is against site rules. A matter of etiquette that constitutes a tacit agreement not to foul or not to run up the score would actually be illegal except as a vague unenforceable sentiment. I suppose both coaches could have the same inner understanding which is never conveyed, but if the other guy doesn't have that sense, you can't appeal to it, because that would be cheating. Wink

The T16 fouling issue is controversial enough that it's easy to say that there's no one consistent etiquette around it, there are lots of coaches with strong opinions on both sides, so no, nothing's set in stone. The running up the score "issue" is non-controversial: almost nobody subscribes to any notion of whether scoring is kosher. That's like complaining about stalling, only even lamer. (Somebody brought up the question of whether staying down is cheating, but I think somewhere in the rules it says something about it being okay to consider the health of your team in the next match into the odds of making a play once you've been locked out and beaten down; I'll look it up.)

T16 fouling is only controversial in any way because there's perceived to be nothing to gain. But there are lots of times it yields a competitive edge, like in divisional league formats, or against your nearest rival, or when you've been eliminated but you want to help your foe's next opponent. Even in open play, there are many many reasons why someone would T16 foul: perhaps they're getting in practice for divisional league play, perhaps they just really want to generate some kind of output after a bad game. There are other circumstances too (like if it's the top of t16, or if it's their last player and you can get a clear) where it's obvious that a T16 foul is in the offing. There are just too many cases, and too little at stake in the age of matching TV and replaceable cog players.

That said, it's less common that people get butt-hurt if you don't T16 foul and they think you should have, than if you do and they think you shouldn't have. That's why I'm consistently inconsistent about it. Very Happy

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Happy_Amateur



Joined: Jan 14, 2019

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 21:29 Reply with quote Back to top

I turn 16 fouled Trickeys S6 Block Troll and he died. You're all welcome cause that thing had it coming.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 22:22 Reply with quote Back to top

If you are playing as Undead, Necro, Nurgle a T16 foul could kill a player and give you a free Zombie or Rotter.
So, it can be a gain.
Also, if your opponent places 3 Side Steppers on LOS in order to prevent the 1TTD fouling them could be useful too for the future (in case you meet him again, especially in private league).
That way there is risk/benefit, i.e. you risk to lose a good player in order to prevent the 1TTD.
Moreover, there is a Prayer to Nuffle giving 2 SPPs for Casualties caused by fouls, so a T16 foul could be useful in that case too.


Last edited by MattDakka on Nov 27, 2021 - 22:24; edited 1 time in total
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2021 - 22:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Happy_Amateur wrote:
I turn 16 fouled Trickeys S6 Block Troll and he died. You're all welcome cause that thing had it coming.


See. If we'd had more T16 fouling in the past, maybe we wouldn't be stuck with seasons now. Mr. Green

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