FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: Apr 14, 2006

Posted: Feb 09, 2008 - 04:25

I don't agree with the arbitrary cutoff for CR. The higher a coach's CR is, the more benefit he is going to get from this.

Something like 'higher CR than your own' would be more appealing to me, though I realise that at high CRs it might be hard to find a suitable match.

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Kryten

Joined: Sep 02, 2003

Posted: Feb 09, 2008 - 04:53

FUMBBL Staff

Gebannus wrote:

I don't agree with the arbitrary cutoff for CR. The higher a coach's CR is, the more benefit he is going to get from this.

Something like 'higher CR than your own' would be more appealing to me, though I realise that at high CRs it might be hard to find a suitable match.

I agree with this sentiment, but it's hard to find a simple rule that fulfills this goal.

Perhaps, 160CR or your own CR + 5, whichever is lower... again, getting into rather complex rules, instead of something simpler. In spite of the flaws, I prefer the currently proposed rule. 155 seems like a reasonable mark of "sound opposition."

lemf

Joined: Jul 17, 2005

Posted: Feb 09, 2008 - 22:15

I like full 10 game cycle, but always loose to elf teams:)

spacebobo

Joined: Oct 16, 2006

Posted: Feb 10, 2008 - 23:51

I like the proposed scoring changes over the previous rules.

Last season it seemed that Tathar's wood elf team basically made a mockery of what the league is supposed to be about. Every time I saw his team playing it was versus a sub 150 CR coach and up 30 TS. At one point I remember his team's stats page rivaled that of some teams who have been retired by admins for not playing fair games. I wasn't really motivated to play my team that much, since there was no chance of winning the league without doing the same.

So, forcing even games (even or negative TS difference) and forcing at least competent opponents (>155 CR) seems like a good change. As a player who likes to stall with dark elves, I also like the reduction in points for each TD, although I imagine some wood elf coaches won't like it so much. Removing the bonus for 5 TDs is also an excellent change, for the reasons you pointed out.

Looking forward to try out the new scoring next season.

Rufus_09

Joined: Aug 23, 2006

Posted: Feb 11, 2008 - 07:47

These changes look good. I play to win so new system, new way of play, sounds good.

Whats 'force opponent concession'? Is this some how forcing your opponent to quit half way through a game?? if so why encouraging this? A game should be played out to the bitter, having my opponent quit on me is frustrating, obviously their not enjoying the game and we want people to enjoy playing elves right?

I disagree with removing category D, E.L.F is not simply about stamping out elfbowl but encouraging elf teams to play a diverse array of teams. You only have to play against 2 other elf teams to complete the cycle, if this is so bad find other coaches that feel the same there appears to be enough of you out there. I agree that elves shouldn't just play elves but they shouldn't not play elves either.

Personally i don't understand what people have against scoring, everybody loves to see it in real sport, don't you find that spending an entire half stomping slowly down the pitch to score boring and tedious. I play to score TDs, that's what i do, that's what i like and pulling off the "elfy bullsht" one end of the pitch to the other on the last turn (1st or 2nd half doesnt matter) with 4 players on the pitch is my bread and butter. This is what elves are about grace, beauty and starting the game with 4 - 8 men.

Thanks for listening and great job to Pizzamogul, this is by far my favorite comp on fumbbl

nin

Joined: May 27, 2005

Posted: Feb 11, 2008 - 20:30

spacebobo wrote:

.... Removing the bonus for 5 TDs is also an excellent change, for the reasons you pointed out...

Just to repeat me a bit and make it visible:
Why do you (some of you at least) think that a 2-0 win should get more points than a 5-3?
I really would like someone to explain that here.

A shutout victory means that all your touchs count for points while wining 6-5 (Skaven vs Wood?) is impresive but gives you just one point for touchs.

I want to point also (again) that defense and stalling is easier the higher your armor (more players on the field) giving advantage to Dark and High Elves (and I don't really see that they need it)

The problem were the ridiculous 5-0 scores against weak opponents.

I write this because I think that high score vs shutout is a matter of playstyle, not of pickiness.
May be shutout is the mark of a good tactic, but I'm a showoff and I preffer the flashy high scores.

pizzamogul

Joined: Jun 13, 2005

Posted: Feb 11, 2008 - 21:35

nin wrote:

spacebobo wrote:

.... Removing the bonus for 5 TDs is also an excellent change, for the reasons you pointed out...

Just to repeat me a bit and make it visible:
Why do you (some of you at least) think that a 2-0 win should get more points than a 5-3?
I really would like someone to explain that here.

A shutout victory means that all your touchs count for points while wining 6-5 (Skaven vs Wood?) is impresive but gives you just one point for touchs.

I want to point also (again) that defense and stalling is easier the higher your armor (more players on the field) giving advantage to Dark and High Elves (and I don't really see that they need it)

The problem were the ridiculous 5-0 scores against weak opponents.

I write this because I think that high score vs shutout is a matter of playstyle, not of pickiness.
May be shutout is the mark of a good tactic, but I'm a showoff and I preffer the flashy high scores.

All good points. My goal was to shutdown the picking, not the "shoot out" style of play. Let me think about this for a bit... perhaps a smaller bonus for each (+2 shutout/+2 5 td's) or doing away with the bonuses altogether would be possibilities

I'll talk to Clarkin about how difficult this is to alter in the program once he's started making changes and then maybe run some "tests.".

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SillySod

Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Posted: Feb 11, 2008 - 21:51

Just give 2 points per TD again. Maybe 2 for every scored a -1 for every scored against.... that still promotes a high scoreline but the shutout players will be compensated by their bonus. 5 is just a bit of an arbitrary point to reach....

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spacebobo

Joined: Oct 16, 2006

Posted: Feb 11, 2008 - 22:28

nin wrote:

spacebobo wrote:

.... Removing the bonus for 5 TDs is also an excellent change, for the reasons you pointed out...

Just to repeat me a bit and make it visible:
Why do you (some of you at least) think that a 2-0 win should get more points than a 5-3?
I really would like someone to explain that here.

Shutting a person ( with >155 CR) is impressive. Scoring 5 touchdowns is not. I've played both styles. My first two elf teams were wood elves and I'd often score 5 touchdowns even though I was a below average player. I don't feel scoring a bevy of TDs is indicative of skill; rather, it's usually a sign that you picked an opponent who is willing to trade scores with you.

These days I play mostly dark elves, and I'm a better player than I was back then, but I usually score only 2 TDs per game. I feel like it takes more skill to win 2-1 or 2-0 with good positioning and stalling than it does to win 5-3 in a contest of "who can roll the least number of 1s".

nin

Joined: May 27, 2005

Posted: Feb 12, 2008 - 15:11

spacebobo, your arguments are mostly good, thanks for explaining

spacebobo wrote:

Shutting a person ( with >155 CR) is impressive. Scoring 5 touchdowns is not. I've played both styles. My first two elf teams were wood elves and I'd often score 5 touchdowns even though I was a below average player. I don't feel scoring a bevy of TDs is indicative of skill; rather, it's usually a sign that you picked an opponent who is willing to trade scores with you.

These days I play mostly dark elves, and I'm a better player than I was back then, but I usually score only 2 TDs per game. I feel like it takes more skill to win 2-1 or 2-0 with good positioning and stalling than it does to win 5-3 in a contest of "who can roll the least number of 1s".

My 2 most succesfull elf teams:
Darks 29/8/15, shutouts 12, 5+ touchs 0
Woodies 14/3/9, shutouts 4, 5+ touchs 2, (5-0 once, was a virus game againt Lizardmen)

I've played few games against elves, but in those 57, 3 were shutouts for them.
The only team that has managed to score 5+ touchs against me were Synn's Fluffy Kittens (and they are Norses)

Imho shutout is a mark of good tactics, high score is just fun (for some peple)... but not easier in my experience.

G_Force

Joined: Aug 19, 2004

Posted: Feb 21, 2008 - 00:38

does the cat A double points count for the baseline too or is it double match points plus baseline?

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pizzamogul

Joined: Jun 13, 2005

Posted: Feb 21, 2008 - 00:39

G_Force wrote:

does the cat A double points count for the baseline too or is it double match points plus baseline?

Doubles everything. Final score x 2.

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