| Poll |
| Why would you not play a Dwarf team of the same Rating/Strength |
| Dwarves kill my players more often than other races! |
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18% |
[ 24 ] |
| Dwarves are boring to play against! |
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61% |
[ 79 ] |
| I've not played against them, but I hear they are tough! |
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6% |
[ 9 ] |
| Some other reason! - state in a post! |
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13% |
[ 17 ] |
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| Total Votes : 129 |
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Pinkerton
Joined: Mar 23, 2004
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 Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 00:58 |
 
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An idea of a plausible, theoretical solution to this problem seems to come to mind. I'd be surprised if it hasn't been thought of before, but during my time here I haven't seen any discussion about it. If it turns out to have been debated and buried numerous times already however, I apologize.
The idea would be to create a league (I suppose the javabowl client had to be modified to allow it too) where Badly Hurt is the worst casualty any player can receive. That way (through my eyes anyway), the "soft" teams shouldn't have any problems taking on the "hard" teams. I'd happily throw my elves in against Khemri, Chaos or what have you, put my speed and agility against their strength and armour, and see if I could beat them, if it didn't mean my team ran a significant risk of coming out of it with one third of the players dead or crippled.
The way things are now, when taking on a bashy, strength-based team with an agility-based, low-armour one, the big turnoff (again, in my eyes) is that it looks like a lose-lose situation. Even if you win the match, the amount of permanent damage done to your team is likely to make it feel like a loss. If you lose the match, casualties are likely to be even higher, and it will in essence be a double loss.
There seems to be two downsides to this idea (that I can think of off the top of my head, anyway). First, the "excitement" or "thrill" of knowing your players are mortal and that every action can be their last, every block could end their life, etc, will be gone. I don't care much for this thrill myself, but I'm led to believe that a lot of coaches (especially long-time, very experienced ones who've seen and done it all) do. Furthermore, since aging would be the only way to cap or put an end to a player's efficiency, a league like this would likely in the long haul end up with extremely well-playing/dangerous "peaked" teams where most players sat at a significant amount of skills, without drawbacks.
Still though, in the mean time, it would seem to be a league where any team would readily be able to agree on playing any other team of similar strength - and considering the amount of coaches expressing their unhappiness about elfbowl, pansies, fouling and bashy teams, there seems to be a need for this. Even coaches of teams repeatedly shied away from and accused as overly bashy tend to defend themselves with that rather than aiming to injure the opponent permanently, they simply want to win the game, and really wish for a BH everytime they foul, crowdpush, pile on, choose MB/Claw/RSC, etc. This would grant them their wish, and would, I hope and think, result in a lot more matches against the agility-based teams they strive to play.
Edit: Just correcting some typos. |
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Diarmuid
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 01:12 |
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A made in fairy land solution that is. Just take out the getting hurt part and we'll play ya for sure! Man I tell ya. What would be the point of the game anymore if your players were immortal beasts? I have to say that I don't understand where your coming from on this. And a whole bunch of peaked teams would be brutal. Where would be the fun in that? Everyone would have one, a dime a dozen for sure. Just brutal. Don't wan't to knock you around too much Pinkerton but I have to say that is a very bad idea. The only disadvantage to elf teams is the very thing you hate so. Can't hack it? Then do what I did, and not play with em. I think that Homer Simpson had a rant that would be suitable for this, if only I could remember it.
diarmuid |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 01:26 |
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Sorry Pinkerton, but that is the worst idea i have ever heard.  |
_________________
"If God really existed it would be necessary to abolish him." - Mikhail Bakunin |
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Pinkerton
Joined: Mar 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 02:23 |
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Well, just an idea. It came to mind as a simple solution, so I thought I'd throw it out. With your gentle replies in mind though, it seems like a case of the cure being deemed worse than the disease. |
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Bone_Crusher
Joined: Sep 18, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 05:25 |
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I have a dwarf team that has both runners with AG 4, it takes days to find an evenly matched opponent for them. Dwarves are so over rated, they can easily be beaten by teams with a couple of STR 4 players, as they do not start with any themselves. So any coaches out there, fearful of playing Dwarf teams, giv'em a go, they're not as tough as you think. |
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Matt_wyeth
Joined: Nov 29, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 06:33 |
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| banana_fish900 wrote: | | Razorback wrote: | | If you cant play a dwarf team at higher tr it aint about your opinion about the dwarves.... its a matter of cowardry |
Does anyone else hear the violins playing when they read this thread?
If your goal is to facilitate change--to get Elf teams to play Dwarves, questioning their masculinity is probably not a good approach. Call me crazy, but I think insulting people doesn't work all that well. |
Tell that to G.W. Bush, maybe our foriegn policy might change. |
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Michael_Warblade
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 08:52 |
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My dwarf team finds it pretty easy to get games vs other bashy teams elfs on the other hand are harder to get games with although i have even had a lot of elf matches (i think its my low number of MB and no DPs that does it) of course the elfs beat me most of the time while i generally win vs other bashers |
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Mnemok
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 12:19 |
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I have to give Pinkerton some kind of credit, sure maybe the idea has some problems. But he still have a point. (No not an april 1st joke). Isn´t the ladder approximately like his idea?
I think that his idea could work, maybe need to lower the aging rolls and removing the apoth. completely. The niggling injuries would then be a big factor (like it is already) and forcing the coaches to retire players.
To those that think the idea is totally stupid: Do you really think it is so important to mutilate a team, maybe destroying the fun for a player. Do these small pixels really have to get permanent damage to satisfy your bloodthirst. Come on. If it´s winning the games that is important BH is ok. But yeah, right, forgot. A retired team is the goal not to win matches.
Just my thoughts on the issue. |
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Gameon
Joined: Dec 03, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 13:54 |
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I would have to admit, that Pinkertons idea is not all bad. |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 14:10 |
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But why would you take skills like DP, claws, fangs, mighty blow, piling on etc etc if you arent able to kill your opponents players and gloat about it in your teams BIO? |
_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
Oscar Wilde |
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Razorback
Joined: Jan 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 14:13 |
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| banana_fish900 wrote: | | Razorback wrote: | | If you cant play a dwarf team at higher tr it aint about your opinion about the dwarves.... its a matter of cowardry |
Does anyone else hear the violins playing when they read this thread?
If your goal is to facilitate change--to get Elf teams to play Dwarves, questioning their masculinity is probably not a good approach. Call me crazy, but I think insulting people doesn't work all that well. |
Please read the whole post....
cutting things out like this aint that good of an idea.
I never wrote this to insult anyone..... I wrote what I think might be reasons why people wont play against dwarves.
Its the things like taking a part of an whole sentence that makes people missunderstand each other.
And if you wanna cut out something from what I said.... plz at least cut out that whole sentence.... it looks at least a bit better then
| Razorback wrote: |
If you cant play a dwarf team at higher tr it aint about your opinion about the dwarves.... its a matter of cowardry and a fact that you might not be able to handle dwarves... you might simple not know how to play against them.
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Although..... I would prefer if you read the whole post.
| Razorback wrote: | Well.
I dont think dwarves is unbalanced considering an elf team.
Its much easier for regular elves to get spp's on their linemans and so on.
Of course it might not be fun to meet a team with block and tackle on their linemans from start.... But I see no reason why you cant play the dwarves when they higher at tr and you too.
If you cant play a dwarf team at higher tr it aint about your opinion about the dwarves.... its a matter of cowardry and a fact that you might not be able to handle dwarves... you might simple not know how to play against them.
I didnt play dwarves before I started Fumbbl..... before that I played alot of elves and so on... I never hesitated to play against any team.
I say: what you dont do you wont learn from.
A few games against dwarves and you will see that they aint that bad..... tackle!!!!! wtf many have tackle at higher tr.
And for the guard, mighty blow, stand firm....
Well what can I say.... its skills like many other teams can take.
Elf teams get cool skills too....
Shortly..... learn how to play against dwarves instead of being scared of them. |
| banana_fish900 wrote: | | Call me crazy |
 okies .... you are crazy!
Get my point??? |
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Mnemok
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 16:07 |
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Grod,
To give you a reason, BH.
It is enough. More RSC, PO, DP, MB and Claw gives more BH and will win you games.
Simple?  |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 16:18 |
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No no no no no. Leap and catch and throw and all things elfy win games. RSC, PO, DP, MB and Claw are for the sheer pleasure at seeing your opponent weep and curse your name to the seven hells as your team surrounds his prone war dancer... |
_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
Oscar Wilde |
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Mnemok
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 01, 2004 - 17:18 |
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Nice to see we have players with a sadistic streak. But you must understand (Grod) that most people does not have a masochistic streak, hence will not play sadistic coaches. |
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Aequitas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Apr 03, 2004 - 01:19 |
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| Grod wrote: | | No no no no no. Leap and catch and throw and all things elfy win games. RSC, PO, DP, MB and Claw are for the sheer pleasure at seeing your opponent weep and curse your name to the seven hells as your team surrounds his prone war dancer... |
Bah. Fools, the lot of you! No death? Huh? What! Fools. Players must die, that's right, even your 5ST/5AG wardancing demon. If we couldn't kill things like that.. this game would be on par with Candyland. Let's all dance around and be happy! Yaaaaay..
And what, RSC, PO, DP, MB and claw don't win you games? Are you mad!?! Sure, I could kill your entire team and waltz in for the victory.. but most of the time, critical stuns/ko's from a foul on your 6AG wardancer can be all it takes to claim victory.
But in general removing SI/RIPS would just be cheesy. May as well rename the game ElfBowl. Yeah, yeah, don't use the whole 'but the game's called Blood Bowl for a reason' excuse. But c'mon, it's bloody ridiculous taking out the good stuff. When I kill (and I will) your best player on a foul, and you've used your apothecary when I killed him earlier, I'm going to gut him and then leave him out to dry. Yes, I'm proud of killing things. Killing one turners feels as good as winning the match, yarr.
So, anyway. Dwarves, yes dwarves.. to stay somewhat on topic here my opinion is that Dwarves are unbalanced. So having not read anything but the 6th page here, this is my solution.. take strength skills away from longbeards, but bring back the Ogre. Yes.. that will make longbeards suck horribly, but as it is, they're the worst things to fear when playing dwarves. Guard/MB everywhere.. they don't need doubles to be nasty. I'm thinking of creating a team like that and play-testing it. I think the Ogre would be necessary to bring back though. Otherwise the dwarves would get destroyed.
But hey, you got to admit, you'd be more willing to play dwarves without all the nasty longbeards. Anyway, yarrr.. keep on killing those elves. |
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