| Poll |
| Why would you not play a Dwarf team of the same Rating/Strength |
| Dwarves kill my players more often than other races! |
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18% |
[ 24 ] |
| Dwarves are boring to play against! |
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61% |
[ 79 ] |
| I've not played against them, but I hear they are tough! |
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6% |
[ 9 ] |
| Some other reason! - state in a post! |
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13% |
[ 17 ] |
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| Total Votes : 129 |
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Grumbledook
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Jun 07, 2004 - 20:10 |
 
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for everyone who said dwarves are boring to play against, its down to the way you defend, as in if you don't do it well then its a boring match, so if they are boring to play against, its cause you a clueless coach and deserve to lose |
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Grothgar
Joined: Oct 09, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 07, 2004 - 20:50 |
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Bah, no-one will play my all longbead dwarves with a fetish for wacky races, even though the fact that they are MA4 and AG2 means that the ball is a foreign object to them. Actually, this team is the most fun I have had for ages, those handicaps really means you have to think about the skills, and +AG's are a godsend (I have 3 woohoo) rather than an inconveniance in the way to get guard. I mean I have two players with sure hands, and another with kick, something that longbeards do not take, ever, but it just makes this team much more fun to play. I mean I have my fair share of Mighty Blow and Guard players, but they have MA4, so what are people so afraid of?
I fear there is some kind of stigma attached to dwarve teams, that stops teams like mine from flourishing, even though it is obvious that I try to actually play the ball with my 3/5/5 match record (and I count those draws as wins  )
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=75119 |
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Patonius2000
Joined: Jun 03, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 07, 2004 - 21:29 |
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my dark elves will play anyone, thats probably why i have a -13 casualty difference, lol |
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Wombats
Joined: Oct 31, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 08, 2004 - 02:43 |
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Teeheehee...stamp collectors  knew it would get a reaction.
Played Dwarves in ranked with my Lizardmen and got totally smashed (3-1) as I had no idea what I was doing having not played them since table top several years ago.
Wasted rerolls due to forgetting about Tackle and then pathetic ball handling owing to a lack of vital rerolls making the first half a complete flop at 2-0.
Second half I fought back with some bad luck on the ball handling (1-1) but it was way, way too late.
The game was fun and I learnt a lot - But it lacked the hijinks of a match where both teams have tactical flexibility.
My opponent's blocking sequence was extraordinarily good and the speed he managed to get out of those dwarves was amazing.
I almost took down notes to use with my Norse.
While I picked up a few tricks there weren't any comical situations or anything that really had me cheering for either team.
It turned bogging the other team down into an art form.
The kind of art that is best left in a museum for pretentious folk to twaddle about and kept well away from normal people.
It's just more fun playing against a team which can do something other than cage.
Even Chaos are more interesting as they can use their strength advantage to break out of a cage.
And the biff was not an issue at all - Even on my skinks with Tackle they could only get blitzes in and didn't get lucky. |
_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net |
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Azmo
Joined: Jun 02, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 08, 2004 - 06:33 |
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I have only read this thread since page 6 but it seems most people take dwarves for the survivability aspect. Nobody likes to lose players but it seems dwarf coaches like it less, hence playing dwarves in the first place. What a surprizing amount do (from what i've seen) is employ the obligatory amazon team aswell in amongst a roster of stompy teams, so that if anyone looking at their account says they are a stompy only coach they have the perfect comeback of an av7 team  .
Personally I find that dwarves require no tactics at all, especially the veteran teams. Clog up the middle with guard beards and block any wing moves with the slayers to put the ball carrier in the crowd. Against elves basically spread the coverage a bit more, but this time just get tz on as many players as possible. If the elf player attempts to dodge away (which he will most probably try) just wait until the magic 1 rears it's head to force the reroll and play off the oppositions likely turnovers, whilst beating the crap out of them. Disregarding bags of luck for the opposition, in these matches, the worst dwarves usually get is a draw and loads of cas or a win and loads of cas.
A possible solution to the dwarves being indomitable is to take tackle away from the beards. This won't effect the bashy sides, and won't give any advantages to ie. orcs, but should encourage more elf teams and maybe a few zon teams to play. You never know, it might encourage more stomp teams to try to get dodge themselves and play for the ball rather than cas.
PS I don't have an elf team..... yet.
PPS I hate Ogre and Khemri teams even more than dwarves |
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Nightbringer
Joined: May 27, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 08, 2004 - 06:54 |
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I played a dwarf team today would have been a tie if it wasnt for one hell of a block and run and a little luck in not falling down |
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Wombats
Joined: Oct 31, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 08, 2004 - 07:16 |
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>A possible solution to the dwarves being indomitable is to take tackle away from the beards.
That occurred to me as well.
Dwarves have mojo being the only team that all start with Block (Oh yeeeeeeah!) *and* have ridiculous Armour Values.
Norse also have Block and ridiculous Armour Values but in an entirely different way.
They still have Frenziers and universal Block to distinguish them from Orcs and Chaos.
Tackle just seems to be bunging it on a bit too much. |
_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net |
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Mezir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 08, 2004 - 09:56 |
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My dwarfs routinely only get one cas when playing versus elfs or some other fast team. I get a lot more when playing Chaos or Orcs, so I don't see Azmo's point. A good elf team will always score on offence. No stopping them. Especially with dwarfs when there's no real way to go deep and put pressure on the thrower without leaving two or three scorers open. Added to that they keep dodging away (yes even with Tackle on the entire team) and I can just get the one Blitz every turn in - adding up to... strangely not "loads of cas".
So, who's been playing lousy elf coaches lately? Play some that know what they're doing. |
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Mnemok
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 08, 2004 - 10:30 |
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I agree with Mezir, a good elf coach only lets a few blocks land every turn.
Of course I don´t play elfs with my Golden Boys. |
_________________
Dyslexics have more fnu. |
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the_grey_ghost
Joined: Oct 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 08, 2004 - 11:19 |
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Look Ya Dwarfs are walking bricks they are different to other teams. I see no reason why not to challenge them unless you have a frail team (hey at least they don't get physical skills)
I think that taking tackle away from them sucks as this is the only team that has players starting with Tackle. Lets be original and consider that they only have ma 4. Once that gets away it's anyones ball game. If you are going to disable them then Take Block away!. Replace it with say sprint! Now watch how fun the team becomes. |
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Sparticus
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 08, 2004 - 11:30 |
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if u are going to take any skill away from the long beards take BLOCK... we allready have a all block team... norse, it makes sence to have a all tackle team but if you take block away from the long beards what are you going to give then im return?? take 10k of price???, extra MA, agility... |
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quota
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 08, 2004 - 11:44 |
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This discussion have turned into a bit of mud throwing. Also I see alot of talk about casualties. My "problem" with the Dwarf team isn't that they beat me to a pulp, and the fact that Elf teams can win easily have no influence on my opinion at all. I find the Dwarf team boring to play because of the slow eight turn drives, and very rarely other than 1-0 or 2-1 results (when they win). There's no element of surprise, it's the same slow moving guard cage every time with no variation worth mentioning.
I've also played a Dwarf team myself for a shorter period, and that too I found boring. Wether I or my opponent does the eight turn cage drive doesn't matter.
I know many will now tell me that Orcs and Chaos and several other teams do that aswell. Caging isn't a Dwarf tactics, even elves do it at times; even my gobbos do. And stalling to the last turn is a very common practice among the bashing teams.
Maybe it's because of the MA4 of the Longbeards. Because of that, more often than not, the Dwarves move only a few squares each turn. The fact that they, almost, all have AV9 and Thick Skull means it's more than a little hard to get any of them to leave the field so at least the opponent can put some preassure on them with superior numbers. It all adds up to me being bored.
Grumbledook wrote:
| Quote: | | ...so if they are boring to play against, its cause you a clueless coach and deserve to lose |
How can I compete with this impressive argument. It's not wether I win or lose, it's a matter of different perceptions of what's fun and what's not. It's the same discussion as with fouling, playing ranked or not and so on, and so forth. |
_________________
the only good undead is a dead, uhm, undead... |
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Azmo
Joined: Jun 02, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 09, 2004 - 02:42 |
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Mezir wrote:
My dwarfs routinely only get one cas when playing versus elfs or some other fast team.
Which routine is this? Just had to check your match ups. There quite a lot more than 1 or so cas on nearly all your matches against elves and skaven come to that. Nope I stand by my point - loads of cas. |
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Azurus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 09, 2004 - 03:04 |
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| Grumbledook wrote: | | for everyone who said dwarves are boring to play against, its down to the way you defend, as in if you don't do it well then its a boring match, so if they are boring to play against, its cause you a clueless coach and deserve to lose |
Bah. They can still be pretty boring to play against when you beat them.
I find that what matters is whether the dwarf coach is inventive enough to take a few risks rather than sit safely in the cage for another turn. I've beaten several dwarf teams just by letting them sit there. It amazes me that some dwarf players can't blitz out of their own cages.
(just got my first dwarf team a while back. have yet to decide how interesting they are to play, currently looking like a farily average race fun-wise, although I'm still too impatient to cage properly) |
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Wombats
Joined: Oct 31, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 15, 2004 - 06:55 |
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Dwarf teams are boring to play against 
Dwarf coaches are highly entertaining to mock |
_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net |
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