Azure
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
|
 Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 02:00 |
 
|
| pythrr wrote: | | uuni wrote: | People do not really want 50:50 forced, but instead they want to win less skilled opponents with perceived equality over TV.
|
With all due respect, this is bollocks. sir.
What "people" want is an even playing field where skill (and by this i mean both playing skill and team building skill) are the basis for wins and losses, with the added randomness of dice (this being a dice game, after all). What they do not want is some kind of handicapping system that patronizes people who are less skillful, thus infantilizing them and giving them no incentive to improve. |
+1
Totally agree. |
|
|
harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 02:02 |
|
This is getting pretty confusing...........this tends to be for me once Uuni gets involved.
1. Who's the new guy, looks like a bunch of old hands digging up old topics.
2. I didn't think Uuni wanted to pair via CR, he wanted to pair via FF........but now I'm not sure.
3. I do think he (Uuni) has a point about coaches wanting to win more than getting a fair match up. Not all, but a large portion.
4. I'd be very very very surprised if a box type division ever used CR in match making formula ever again.
So as we're all airing our linen, here's mine (yes I know you've all heard it before, but the threads keep a coming).
Match making based on FF.
Altered by last 10 matches (win/losses most recent being the most important)
Altered by changes in TV from last match up. |
|
|
uuni
Joined: Mar 12, 2010
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 02:21 |
|
|
neoliminal
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 02:22 |
|
I'm hardly daunted by this thread's negative remarks. Some are extremely helpful, for example I found out that some of this was in the Black Box when it started. So there it is.
When I spoke with Jervis, his ideal outcome of games was, and I'm paraphrasing, "That the worst coaches should still be able to win 1/3 or the games against the better players regardless of the difference in Team Value." I didn't agree with that, but I saw what he was trying to accomplish.
For example, if you always fail on a 1 and you always succeed on a 6 then you can't be sure you aren't going to lose on any given action (that requires dice.) I played a game recently where my opponent stalled until the sixth turn and failed a 2D block with skulls to end the half. He had the score for about 6 turns, but didn't put it in. It's these kinds of things that even out the coaching.
This isn't chess. Playing chess against a much better opponent isn't fun. Playing Blood Bowl against a better opponent doesn't mean he is going to win for sure. That's a big draw because otherwise why would newbies bother trying to get better? |
_________________
*
<BBRC>retired</BBRC><NAF>founder, 1st, 2nd Presidents</NAF><BB-Developers>retired</BB-Developers><Game-Developer>active</Game-Developer> |
|
DanielM75
Joined: Jan 18, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 02:34 |
|
Regardless of the merits of the idea, unless you had a whole stack of coaches registering for each game time it would be impossible for it to work anyway.
Playing my time zone I don't think I have seen more than 7 other coaches register when I have, so having enough to make this work isn't even possible. |
|
|
Jeffro
Joined: Jan 22, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 02:35 |
|
When I was a kid, I grew up playing "Duck-Duck-Goose". I grew up in Illinois. People from Iowa played "Duck-Duck-Goose"... people in Indiana played "Duck-Duck-Goose"... people in Wisconsin played "Duck-Duck-Goose"... as far as I knew that's what people played in Indiana, Missouri, wherever!
When I moved to Minnesota, you know what I found out...
They play "Duck-Duck-Grey Duck"
"Seriously?!" I asked a native Minnnesotan.
"Yes. What do you play?" they answered.
"Duck-Duck-Goose." I replied.
"A goose isn't even a duck." was their response.
"Duck-Duck-Grey Duck" is dumb. People in Minnnesota and anybody else that plays "Duck-Duck-Grey Duck" are idiots. It's "Duck-Duck-Goose"... everyone knows it. Calling it something different just because you think you came up with something special and cool isn't making it different... it's just confusing for everyone else just trying to play a game. |
|
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 02:36 |
|
| neoliminal wrote: |
When I spoke with Jervis, his ideal outcome of games was, and I'm paraphrasing, "That the worst coaches should still be able to win 1/3 or the games against the better players regardless of the difference in Team Value." I didn't agree with that, but I saw what he was trying to accomplish.
|
I guess that Jervis never played on Fumbbl.
That BBRC Member, NAF Founder, Ex-NAF President, Game Designer guy is only managing 34%. You'd expect him to know a thing or two. |
_________________
[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
|
Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 02:48 |
|
| neoliminal wrote: |
This isn't chess. Playing chess against a much better opponent isn't fun. Playing Blood Bowl against a better opponent doesn't mean he is going to win for sure. That's a big draw because otherwise why would newbies bother trying to get better? |
Do you play chess?
It's not fun when the gap is too large...lower gaps are fun to play. I'd say within 100-300 grade points FIDE I find very fun and competitive.
When I'm playing in the Box, I aim for 80% win percentage. I know other coaches who aim higher still, in the 90%...and some of them hit it.
What Jervis wanted doesn't matter. There's enough skill left in BB to counter what he intended. |
_________________
http://www.calculateyour.tv - an easy way to work out specific team builds.
 |
|
Tathar
Joined: Sep 29, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 03:16 |
|
If you want these sorts of matches you can get these in ranked. |
|
|
Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 03:55 |
|
God I remember when B was like this.
"Why yes... I would love to play higher TS teams because their coach happens to suck".
__Synn |
|
|
neoliminal
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 03:59 |
|
| koadah wrote: |
I guess that Jervis never played on Fumbbl.
|
No, he never did.
And for the record, he never shut it down, which he could have. He wants people to play Blood Bowl. In his opinion it's the best game he will ever make. I think we can all get behind that. |
_________________
*
<BBRC>retired</BBRC><NAF>founder, 1st, 2nd Presidents</NAF><BB-Developers>retired</BB-Developers><Game-Developer>active</Game-Developer> |
|
Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 04:12 |
|
Oh I sense a storm coming... |
|
|
Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 04:51 |
|
Oh dear lord...
Where are my popcorn!  |
_________________
Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
|
neoliminal
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 05:14 |
|
| Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | Where are my popcorn! |
You're sharing, right? |
_________________
*
<BBRC>retired</BBRC><NAF>founder, 1st, 2nd Presidents</NAF><BB-Developers>retired</BB-Developers><Game-Developer>active</Game-Developer> |
|
pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2013 - 06:37 |
|
| Jeffro wrote: | When I was a kid, I grew up playing "Duck-Duck-Goose". I grew up in Illinois. People from Iowa played "Duck-Duck-Goose"... people in Indiana played "Duck-Duck-Goose"... people in Wisconsin played "Duck-Duck-Goose"... as far as I knew that's what people played in Indiana, Missouri, wherever!
When I moved to Minnesota, you know what I found out...
They play "Duck-Duck-Grey Duck"
"Seriously?!" I asked a native Minnnesotan.
"Yes. What do you play?" they answered.
"Duck-Duck-Goose." I replied.
"A goose isn't even a duck." was their response.
"Duck-Duck-Grey Duck" is dumb. People in Minnnesota and anybody else that plays "Duck-Duck-Grey Duck" are idiots. It's "Duck-Duck-Goose"... everyone knows it. Calling it something different just because you think you came up with something special and cool isn't making it different... it's just confusing for everyone else just trying to play a game. |
I love you sir. |
_________________
 |
|
|
|
NBFL Season 32: The ...
Search
