Force
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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  Posted:
May 29, 2004 - 20:39 |
 
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Ok, i am not sure i am ready for this.
I am going to say what I think, and you will flame me.
The old game we all have so much fun at...
FUMBBL should NOT setup a new Division that uses the PTV ruleset.
FUMBBL should flicker through the PTV ruleset, and cherrypick elements that it can implement.
These elements are supposed, good will assumed, to be improvements over the LRB. A good portion of the PTV rules is totally irellevant for online gaming. Thats everything that deals with teams that are developped to diffrent in power to play each other. Well on FUMBLL simply find a team your size to play against.
DivX. The name of the thing is experimental division. Please delete all teams there and tell everybody to start all over again testing something new, beginning at 1.07.04. I simply lack any kind of understanding why experimental teams should be saved. They are part of an experiment. Play in one of the non-experimental divisions then, there are plenty of those divisions.
Now heres a list of things that should be in the updated DivX, in comparison to LRB3.0
- Update team lists to match PTV 1.3
- Remove all secret weapons for the moment
- Peak all players at 76 SPP as soon as they collect their 76th SPP
- Allow coaches to choose the MVP after the match
- Remove ageing
I'm sure there are some other things that could be applied without too extreme effort, thats just intended as a starting point. Then freeze the changes for like 8 weeks.
After 8 weeks of play, analyze the data and feedback from coaches.
Try to give a direct comparison to the LRB, whats hot, whats not.
My believe is, that the game would be more challenging and more fun with these changes alone. We could then see whats the current status of the Vault, and pick things for the next testing run.
Fact is, Jervis will not suceed in developing a ruleset superior to the LRB without Ski's and Christer's (and everybody on their teams) help.
The danger is, that Jervis will consider tabletop play as relevant playtesting. It's not. I played my girlfriend's halflings the other night using the new injury table. Relevant data? i guess not.
The best coaches are on this site. Playing JBB is technically superior to the board. I don't want to discuss this, but you have no block dice preview on the board, you have no mouseover availiable to check player skills and you simply cannot play bloodbowl so controlled on the board as you can in JBB and you will not find so many matches against such skilfull coaches in your local club.
Either FUMBLL and the Community here joins the Playtesters Vault, or Jervis will come up with yet another edition that sucks. Jervis is serious about this new edition, and hes far better than many people give him credit for. And he is open to feedback.
Together, we could make this thing work.
Thanks for reading,
Toby (forcezerg@yahoo.de) |
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LoordiPaha
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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| Posted:
May 29, 2004 - 21:09 |
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Ahem... just one thing.
Blood Bowl's a board game. That means that JBB is completely irrelevant. If Blood Bowl is fun to play in real life, then it's fine. So tabletop testing really should be done. It's the thing that really matters. |
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Azurus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 29, 2004 - 21:23 |
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I don't think there's much point in only testing SOME of the vault, as that will only give data that isn't properly accurate. Hopefully Christer and Ski will be able to implement as much as possible. I'm sure they will, in due time.
As for DivX, I agree it would be nice to get a reset (after giving people the chance to move their teams to U of course). The results from the current experimental rules in divx are very hard to determine due to the number of teams that were around before they were introduced.
And don't you think you should be asking for changes instead of outright ordering the admins/Ski about? People might listen more often that way. |
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*This is a public safety announcement. Azurus is a cynical, sarcastic idiot. Please ignore any and everything he may say. Thank you for your attention.* |
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Force
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 29, 2004 - 21:31 |
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http://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=711
Java Blood Bowl is a Computer Game, that tries to simulate the Board Game Blood Bowl to the best extend possible.
FUMBBL is a website that allows people to play the Computer Game JBB online.
Blood Bowl is beeing played online, and it is discussed online, and the people who are dedicated and knowledgeable about the game, including the games designer's, can be found on the web.
The people who play in a Division on FUMBBL using JBB do all use exactly the same rules, and they are not prone to errors in rules interpretations.
The games that are beeing played are principally of a competitive nature, the amount of games is enourmous, the time to play a game is about 1/3 of the time it takes to play on the board. The people who play are on average verry skilled.
In short:
This is the place where this game is played in a way that produces relevant data to base design, rules, and balance on.
If the new edition is approved by the people who play it with the greatest intensivity, it can hardly be broken for the casual gamer. |
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Force
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 29, 2004 - 21:35 |
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| Azurus wrote: | | And don't you think you should be asking for changes instead of outright ordering the admins/Ski about? People might listen more often that way. |
I knew it.
I try to use the word "should" as often as I can.
In my language there is a vast difference in politeness between "should" and "must".
All I'm saying it, it "should" be done this way, for various reasons.
Implementing the complete vault pack "would" be quite annoying since JErvis can easily wipe away 6 month work with his pencil, programmin is not that flexible. (i guess).
In my oppinion these steps should be taken. If thats offensive, then i lack the verbal means to avodid it. Sorry. |
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Azurus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 29, 2004 - 21:50 |
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Sorry Force, it's just that a lot of people won't agree with your version of what 'should' happen. Didn't mean to offend, such sweeping staements as the ones you are making tend to prompt 'hasty' replies.
If you added, 'I think' before your 'shoulds' then it would be a huge improvement.
Yes, it would be annoying if JJ swept the board after everything was implemented, but there's no less chance of that happenning if we only test some things. And the results will carry a lot more influence if everything is in place. |
_________________
*This is a public safety announcement. Azurus is a cynical, sarcastic idiot. Please ignore any and everything he may say. Thank you for your attention.* |
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Force
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 29, 2004 - 22:10 |
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sry for overreacting;
anyway on topic:
surely, it would be best if the PTV pack could be used right away.
but, let alone these things are "sweeping"
* MVP choosen
* Big Guy general access removed
* ageing removed
* 5 skills maximum
Sure iter will be issues popping up, but thats the nature of the process. With a little imagination one might say "imagine with feature XY this will become even worse" or "well when that is implemented it should fix that".
I guess my point is:
We could start right away. Leaving this thing up to Jervis alone would be something we will all regret, a point Babs made as well i think. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 29, 2004 - 23:05 |
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| Quote: |
Please delete all teams there and tell everybody to start all over again testing something new,
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I'm sure deleting all those teams that people like playing will enhance their enjoyment on FUMBBL. No use putting a bad taste in their mouth is there?! |
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Owner of the REAL Larson
Come join the CCC League |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 29, 2004 - 23:20 |
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Toby, with all due respect:
Don't you think that christer and skyjunkie are already considering when and how they will implement the Vault rules? 
| Quote: | | Fact is, Jervis will not suceed in developing a ruleset superior to the LRB without Ski's and Christer's (and everybody on their teams) help. |
You can't mean that seriously, can you?
Do you mean "without Toby's help" perhaps? 
| Quote: | | Either FUMBLL and the Community here joins the Playtesters Vault, or Jervis will come up with yet another edition that sucks. |
Delusions of grandeur?
Sorry mate, I don't jeopardise your honest intentions, but your post is definitely over the top!  |
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Force
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 29, 2004 - 23:36 |
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Mirascael i assume a person of your intellect and education knows that it is widely considered bad manner to provide qoutoations of single lines out of context?
And, i case you are serious with your accusations, the context is that many people are pissed off by what seems to be a Jervis Johnson solo run towards the line of scrimagge at a first glance.
There are not few people who think "this ptv is the next worst thing to the legendary 4th edition". And, to be blunt, if i were Christer or Ski, I'd be thinking "oh no we put all this work into this and now we have to start all over again".
The target of my post is to finally stop the underestimination of this site and the JBB client and get Jervis to take the next step and get something going.
With all due respect, the "we're only fan projects please don't shut us down" aproach may be less reckless than mine, but the truth is, fumbll and the web is Blood Bowl. the game would have died a long time ago if the small internet community had not kept it alive.
We are talking about a new edition here. A new editon. Release Date: 2005 at verry earliest. Considering the speed they edit LRB, 2008. I'm not known for my diplomay skills and I don't want to.
GET GOING PEOPLE THIS IS OUR GAME. |
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Zy-Nox
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 29, 2004 - 23:44 |
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sorry force, I totaly disagree with you.
I'm all for the play test vault, If it's a success then hey It works, If it fails then we can carry on with our happy little lrb lives.Its been 8 years since BB had an Overhaul.
I for one am looking forward to a new edition. I am tired of looking at living rulebooks and patches and erratas, I want what bb deserves, A new life, Like when it went from 2nd ed to 3rd.
Sorry But this is my view, no one will change it. |
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Anarchy Online |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 29, 2004 - 23:44 |
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Ok then, I officially yield to the power of Toby's force. |
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Force
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 29, 2004 - 23:54 |
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| Zy-Nox wrote: | sorry force, I totaly disagree with you.
I'm all for the play test vault, If it's a success then hey It works, If it fails then we can carry on with our happy little lrb lives.Its been 8 years since BB had an Overhaul.
I for one am looking forward to a new edition. I am tired of looking at living rulebooks and patches and erratas, I want what bb deserves, A new life, Like when it went from 2nd ed to 3rd.
Sorry But this is my view, no one will change it. |
Well fine you disagree with me, but i totally agree with you!
I just don't think Jervis has the means to design a new edition.
Sure he can think of some funky new skills but how the hell is he going to get like 100 diffrent team of each race into his studio league?
The game needs to be test-driven right here, right now.
Go over to the Vault.
There is not a single Match Report in the forum!
did anybody offline even notice there are a couple of new messy pdf's availiable?
I back out at this stage.
nuff said.
ps. Mirascael i'm looking forward to get some games in "MY VERRY OWN NO AGEING DIVISION". I hope i can get to play you soon, you deserve a sound beating... i pray to nuffle he's with me on that one! |
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Zy-Nox
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 30, 2004 - 00:03 |
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Yup Toby, the studio league is not tha place to test.
Most play for the thrill and not the tactical team building edge.
We will test it here. |
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Anarchy Online |
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Delta
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 30, 2004 - 00:10 |
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| Mirascael wrote: |
Sorry mate, I don't jeopardise your honest intentions, but your post is definitely over the top! |
Actually, out of all of Forces' previous suggestions I think this one has come across best. Sure its forcefull, but he get's his point across!
And I suppose he is actively trying to do something to shape this game we all love. (certainly more than I'm doing anyway!)
Force, as for some of your suggestions I have to disagree.
Especially when you are suggesting deleting all of the DivX teams!! A bit too drastic perhaps.
I'm quite happy with the way things are. It's by no means perfect but it doesn't make the game any less enjoyable.
EDIT: But that doesn't mean I'm not open to change!!! |
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Cain is for Charlie and Delta is for Cain |
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