bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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 Posted:
May 01, 2019 - 19:59 |
 
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These are the type of debates (not the poll options presented), when we should have the PIE option! |
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FinnDiesel
Joined: Mar 07, 2018
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| Posted:
May 01, 2019 - 20:05 |
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I think ‘Gay’ is also common tongue for saying for something is ‘weird†or ‘shit’ and your opponent didn’t mean it by attacking you or LGBT. However, I fully support it shouldn’t be on the site and should be condoned |
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Rags
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
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| Posted:
May 01, 2019 - 20:09 |
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Hello ExtremeGrazedKnee,
Sorry to hear you had to put up with that. Like most of coaches who commented, I think it's unacceptable.
But I don't think you're being fair to Christer either TBH. In your own words:
A: "I don't want to thought police anybody but surely both me and my opponent were in the wrong here and the site should reflect that? "
The site has reflected it. Your grievance is acknowledged by site owner and the community at large, and you've received an apology. An imperfect apology perhaps, but an apology.
B:
"Or else basically just side with anybody who wants to chuck bigoted language about against the anger that will obviously provoke?"
Sorry friend, this is doesn't seem right. This was a first known offence, and everyone has been warned. You are not satisified that a warning is enough, but that's not your call. Christer feels a warning should be enough to prevent re-offending, and he's probably right. Everyone gets the benefit of the doubt. There is no discrimination, inconsistency, or siding with bigots here.
Beyond the warning your position is:
A: Don't accept apology for how oppponent's behaviour made you feel. You want apology for the specific behaviour.
B: refuse to play on until you get acceptable apology
I'd tend to agree with you on A. 'I'm sorry for how you feel' is an insulting cop out. 'I'm sorry for what I did' is a real apology.
But being right on A doens't mean you call the shots on B! You disavow thought policing but insist on having behavioural rules executed to your satisfcation. That's not a coherent position.
It's your choice whether to play the game or not. But if you don't get your way, it doesn't mean Christer or fumbbl are complicit in bigotry. |
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The_Great_Gobbo
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
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| Posted:
May 01, 2019 - 20:12 |
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A different and totally minor element to this question, I role play as a goblin and part of my role playing is to be offensive, within the bounds of common decency. As role playing as a goblin I would possibly use the terms 'gurl' and 'gay' as a (in my opinion) minor insult, but that is because i am trying to be gently insulting. If someone was ever genuinely insulted then i would apologize. Does the context of being insulted by a "goblin" make my use of the words as an insult acceptable? |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
May 01, 2019 - 20:25 |
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| FinnDiesel wrote: | | I think ‘Gay’ is also common tongue for saying for something is ‘weird†or ‘shit’ |
only common for the ignorant. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 01, 2019 - 20:28 |
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It's not hard to search for something that isn't denigrating to an entire group of people to comment on what someone does. Just a little imagination. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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May 01, 2019 - 20:29 |
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I find the "that is normal use of language" argument to be very weak in the context of a site where even mild, common swearing is banned. I could understand saying "we cannot police language here so as long as it's not a direct intentional insult to another coach we will let it pass", but Fumbbl is actually the most language-police-y community I have ever been part of and as such, if you police fuck but not gay, there is, indeed, a word for that and that word is bigotry.
While we are at it, I would like to add "retard(ed)" and "(dice) rape" to the list of inappropriate language. These offend me much more than fuck or shit. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
May 01, 2019 - 20:32 |
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| Rags wrote: |
It's your choice whether to play the game or not. But if you don't get your way, it doesn't mean Christer or fumbbl are complicit in bigotry. |
The distance between apathetic and complicity are barely a hairs breadth. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 01, 2019 - 20:33 |
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| Verminardo wrote: | I find the "that is normal use of language" argument to be very weak in the context of a site where even mild, common swearing is banned. I could understand saying "we cannot police language here so as long as it's not a direct intentional insult to another coach we will let it pass", but Fumbbl is actually the most language-police-y community I have ever been part of and as such, if you police fuck but not gay, there is, indeed, a word for that and that word is bigotry.
While we are at it, I would like to add "retard(ed)" and "(dice) rape" to the list of inappropriate language. These offend me much more than fuck or shit. |
+1
Fuck & shit FTW!!! |
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Patator
Joined: Jan 05, 2015
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May 01, 2019 - 20:38 |
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For all who say that it's common language, so it wasn't directed at the coach, therefor not insulting :
Indeed.
It was not insulting to this gay coach.
It was insulting to all gay (coach or not).
The pejorative use of a term describing a category of people is discrtimination and phobia.
That being said on this case :
- I strongly support a policy that sanction the pejorative use of gay (or girl, ...) in a strong enough way to make it disapear.
- For what I understand of Christer decision : the rules of the website are more hard on sweary language that they are on the pejorative use of gay. This is debatable and eventualy we could ask for a change. But with that in mind christer did react and sanctionned both side.
Finaly I also have witnessed some mysoginy, way much than homophobia. So maybe a little "campagn" or at least that kind of debate is a healthy reminder to everyone to stay vigilant. By that I mean careful with your words and don't let it pass.
But do it politely. 
PS : Fumbbl is a great community by internet standard. Let it stays this way and continue to improve |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 01, 2019 - 20:47 |
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| koadah wrote: | | Verminardo wrote: | I find the "that is normal use of language" argument to be very weak in the context of a site where even mild, common swearing is banned. I could understand saying "we cannot police language here so as long as it's not a direct intentional insult to another coach we will let it pass", but Fumbbl is actually the most language-police-y community I have ever been part of and as such, if you police fuck but not gay, there is, indeed, a word for that and that word is bigotry.
While we are at it, I would like to add "retard(ed)" and "(dice) rape" to the list of inappropriate language. These offend me much more than fuck or shit. |
+1
Fuck & shit FTW!!! |
In polite society, we don't say 4 letter words but we do get to pick on entire groups of people with other words. |
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reroll_LGC
Joined: Dec 17, 2017
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May 01, 2019 - 21:04 |
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+1 on the "derogative use of gay, or girl, or whatever, is wrong and should be reprimanded" side
I'm sorry your experience has been hampered by those who think, for any reason that this is okay - in my opinion it is not. I also don't like the "if it wasn't meant as an insult to you, don't take it as one" argument - those who use a derogatory term (even if referring to the dice, as in an example above), are using insulting languages which is likely to cause offence - they should apologise when offence is caused. If you ever don't mean to cause offence, then maybe just don'y use an offensive term in the first place. And don't try to justify it when called out - just apologise. |
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Zed
Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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| Posted:
May 01, 2019 - 21:06 |
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I'm a big swearer myself and i have to say i use the word "gay" (for lack of imagination i guess) more often than most people, in the "weak" sense with no "homophobic" intent.
It happened that i once played a non cis member of fumbbl who asked me gently not to use the word because he was himself an homosexual, i was ashamed a bit as any normal person would be, apologized myself quickly and told him i would not use the word anymore.
Do i still use it now ? Depends the people i'm facing, context matters, with extremegrazedknee i can understand his frustration but if he went over the top, they should get both the stick. |
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Rags
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
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| Posted:
May 01, 2019 - 21:15 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | Rags wrote: |
It's your choice whether to play the game or not. But if you don't get your way, it doesn't mean Christer or fumbbl are complicit in bigotry. |
The distance between apathetic and complicity are barely a hairs breadth. |
Maybe. But this is neither! Action was taken. The offending coach was formally warned, which is the normal procedure, and the community consensus is rejection of the language and censure of the behaviour.
'What I wanted wasn't done' and 'Nothing was done' are two different things |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
May 01, 2019 - 21:17 |
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I think its important to consider that communication isnt a unilateral thing and how one comes across isnt simply "what I say makes sense to me and thats good enough. If other people get a different idea about who I am thats their problem." |
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