Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Jul 16, 2004 - 21:15 |
 
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Just thought I would share my look at the new PO rule and loss of RSC from the new vault rules under testing.
Current rules:
Claw + RSC gives you 30%, 24% and 17% chance of a casualty per AV roll against av 7, 8, and 9 respectively.
Claw + MB gives 20%, 16% and 12%.
New vault rules:
PO + MB gives 31%, 23% and 16% for av 7,8 and 9.
Claw, MB and PO gives a scary 40%, 35% and 27% casualty rates....
So, as well as str based teams getting alot of useful new skills, their bashing skills are getting a major major boost. When PO was nerfed, people complained but the teams that indirectly benefited were those with physical access to get claw and rsc.
Now we are back to where a dwarf or orc will bash as well as chaos can now without even rolling doubles. PO + MB under the new rules are pretty similar in bashing to where the claw + rsc combo is now. Yes you are left lying prone, but instead of needing 2 doubles on 1 player, every longbeard or blitzer with strength access will get these skills. Plus, the one skill elf teams could use to counter alot of prone players, DP, is getting nerfed into a foul-once-a-turn skill thanks to no more IGMEOY.
Imagine you make 3 blocks a turn, thats 48 blocks. Say you are against an av7 team, and you knock over them 30 times in the game. That is 9 (!) casualties just from blocks. Is anyone seriously thinking a team can take that many casualties over 2 or 3 games and still be playable? Who is ever going to play an elf team against a strength team? |
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Dooby
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Jul 16, 2004 - 21:25 |
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Wow thats amazing - I havent a clue what you just said but its still amazing. When I need to take a skill on the implementation of vault, I'll give you a call. |
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Barash
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2004 - 21:51 |
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Why can't Britnoth use PO under the current rules? |
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Barash |
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Grumbledook
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 16, 2004 - 22:00 |
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why can't he post this on the vault forum where it might actually mean something :p |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 16, 2004 - 22:02 |
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What do you mean? This is about the vault rules....
Current PO + MB rates are 20%, 16% and 11% if you're curious.... PO is a good skill as it is now IMO, and doesn't need to be made a team killer again. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 16, 2004 - 22:45 |
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Brit - he means the important people who actually make the decisions wont be ready this. The only ones reading this are the sheep that get led from one version to the other.
The vault forums on TBB are where the serious gripers go. |
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Owner of the REAL Larson
Come join the CCC League |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 17, 2004 - 00:18 |
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Oooh, I want to be a serious griper. Can I? Can I? Pleeeeease!  |
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quota
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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Jul 17, 2004 - 00:34 |
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This isn't more overpowered than Treemen getting Jump Up on a double roll 
I don't like the new rules. If the reason for them is that some things don't work, why not fix those things and leave the rest alone? Why mess around with stuff that actually works?  |
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the only good undead is a dead, uhm, undead... |
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assar
Joined: Nov 10, 2003
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Jul 17, 2004 - 00:44 |
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But with the new rules there wont be many treemen around, since the woodies wont have access to them... |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 17, 2004 - 02:56 |
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Mummies losing block but having Piling on and berzerer on a double (blocking from prone) and juggernaut (turns both down block die into pushbacks) sounds no different, and khemri get 4 mummies and can use rerolls. Hmmmmmm. |
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Michael_Warblade
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 17, 2004 - 03:24 |
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Sigh once again I will say this
edit Britnoth is Right Beserker is a Willpower skill. I used Version 1.5 not 1.5.1
1. Juggernaught will not work in conjunction with Beserker as juggernaught only works on blitzes not standard blocks
2. Elves getting jump up on a standard roll will mean they will charge forward and you will blitz one of them he will then stand up and move his full move and get the ball passed to him to score in 2 (or however long it takes to get one elf to stand back up) So the Elfs will move their Game From a Running/Passing game to a Running From Prone/Passing game
3. Fouling has been Heavily Weakened (a 11/36 chance of getting caught and a almost 1/18 chance of missing the next game as well)
4. and with dp only being +1 (you have a 1/10 chance of causing an injury sending you off for the next match as well) this number is calculated from the chance of getting a 12 if you roll a 9+ on injury it does not include the armor roll
So yes while the Vault rules may cause more damage initially I would love to see you pile on my Prone Jump Up elfs. I mean there might be a better elf tactic but from what i have seen if you can get jump up on your entire roster as their first skills why not just play most of the match from prone it means your opponents get far less of these super powerful blocks. In fact the teams that are going to be hurt most by these new rules are the bashy ones (well and the median rosters like humans) as they will end up loosing Buckets of players vs other bashy teams. Where as the Ag teams will just play from prone when the bashy sides knock them down |
Last edited by Michael_Warblade on %b %17, %2004 - %03:%Jul; edited 2 times in total |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 17, 2004 - 03:39 |
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Warblade that is total nonsense.
1. Berserker is a willpower skill, anyone can take it on doubles. RTFM?
2. Elves can do that now with a double... but do you really stand up your elf to run forward to the end zone, and then pass to him? If your elf thrower is far enough forward to even make a long bomb to him he is too close to the LoS, and could get blitzed. You will instead need to hand off to someone and have them pass to your catcher. I'd rather have block and dodge myself, Jump Up now sucks.
3. Removing block on big guys was supposed to make big guys less reliable, causing more turnovers. Now they get a skill that counters that loss when blitzing, and the pushback perfectly works with wild animal and frenzy. Minotaurs and rat ogres look just as strong as when they had block.
4 + 5. Fouling is weakened, but with no IGMEOY it is changed from a tactical skill to remove a threat, to a once a turn when you have more players to kill the other team. Fouling rules were good, all they needed was the mng occasionally when ejected. What we have here encourages skillless play. |
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Michael_Warblade
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 17, 2004 - 03:53 |
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Why get block and Dodge on elves?
I would prefer Jumpup and Grapple (as you can get prone without Armor/injury rolls then move full dist next turn)
You are still thinking that Elves should try to play to their weaknesses a well developed elf thrower (Strong arm, accurate, Ag4) can pass a Long Bomb on a 3+ (2+ with AG 5)
Britnoth fouling is nearly a 1/3 chance of getting caught you are really going to do this 1/turn? |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 17, 2004 - 04:09 |
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If i foul say 7 times a half, with IGMEOY that is average of 3 ejections.
With the new rule, its an average of 2, so it will be less likely to hurt the player but less likely to lose me players.
BTW, leaving your players prone might be the best idea... that is if they havent all been stunned by PO MB opponents... |
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Michael_Warblade
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jul 17, 2004 - 04:10 |
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By the way Britnoth a Long bomb goes from the elfs side of the los to the endzone so all the elf has to do is stand 9 squares from the LOS (2 gfis) |
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