Niessuh
Joined: Dec 11, 2009
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 13:37 |
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even elf teams gain more SPP from casualties than from passing currently |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 14:30 |
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Carrying with a good thrower certainly looks important for optionality. Which means new players will still be tempted by the passing game.
Hand offs still work! I think.
So the zombie or Saurus can catch a random ball drop and then hand off later at least.
Is an ogre doing ttm still a 3+ to avoid fumble? |
_________________ “A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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Traul
Joined: Jun 09, 2013
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 16:02 |
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Felix17 wrote: | I think this is one of the greatest impacts of the new passing rules, that agile players who were able to leap on a spilled ball and pass it clear are now doing so at much greater risk. |
Is that really a bad thing? Jumping over prone players seems to have made it easier to get sacks in the first place, so making it harder to extract the ball might not be bad for game balance.
OTOH, a thrower seems mandatory now for long-range running game with a quick pass and hand-off in the same turn. Skaven used to do that with 3 GR, now they need a thrower in the chain. Same for elves. |
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sebco
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 16:09 |
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Traul wrote: | (...)
OTOH, a thrower seems mandatory now for long-range running game with a quick pass and hand-off in the same turn. Skaven used to do that with 3 GR, now they need a thrower in the chain. Same for elves. |
For wood elves, elf union and high elves, yes. It will be harder for dark elves. They have no thrower and their runner has PA 3+ and miss the Pass skill. |
_________________ I like cheese but don't call me skaven ! |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 16:49 |
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About the DE Runner: now that I think of Dump Off, imagine failing it with a Wildly Inaccurate pass.
I would think twice before using it. |
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CAB
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 17:00 |
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MattDakka wrote: | About the DE Runner: now that I think of Dump Off, imagine failing it with a Wildly Inaccurate pass.
I would think twice before using it. |
A runner probably need Nerves of Steel as first skill if you want a reliable Dump Off. Follow that with Wrestle and then Dodge for a decent safety on defence. You could also go with Pro skill for a chance to re-roll that Dump-off or a better chance for blocking. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 17:02 |
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Too many skills already. I can slap 3 skills on 3 different Blitzers/Witch Elves and have 3 Blodgers.
Runner maybe can be used just as Leader caddy.
That said, if I had to give a non-Leader-caddy Runner 2 skills, Blodge would be the first 2. AV 7 wants Blodge. |
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CAB
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 17:41 |
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MattDakka wrote: | Too many skills already. I can slap 3 skills on 3 different Blitzers/Witch Elves and have 3 Blodgers.
Runner maybe can be used just as Leader caddy.
That said, if I had to give a non-Leader-caddy Runner 2 skills, Blodge would be the first 2. AV 7 wants Blodge. |
Well... it really don't work like that as if you can choose where skills go or not you also miss out on the opportunity of being able to decently throw quick passes which in and of itself will generate SPP for the Runner.
You can decide to still score with your blitzers or a Witch elf.
The runner will give you options you otherwise don't really have in BB2020, that is I believe the whole point with the passing changes.
Passing seem to not only be less common but also far more dangerous now. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 17:49 |
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Even if the MVP is random in BB2020 it's easier (and better for the team) to have 3 Blitzers with Blodge than a Runner with Wrodge and NoS.
Since passing is more dangerous it's better not to invest skills on developing a passer at all, this is my impression.
The designers should have made the passing game less risky to encourage it, not the other way around.
If to have a not-so-reliable passing game I have to build a Thrower then I don't play with a Thrower at all and I develop other positionals. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 18:02 |
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Passing has always sucked since 3rd edition. As soon as the turn over rule became a thing its been sub optimal, now its just slightly worse again.
Its not that big a deal really. Carry on stalling and walking the ball in, just slightly harder to farm spp now, and slightly harder to OTT. |
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stej
Joined: Jan 05, 2009
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 18:04 |
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Opportunity cost of developing a dedicated thrower doesn't appear to be worth it for a lot of teams |
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CAB
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 18:25 |
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stej wrote: | Opportunity cost of developing a dedicated thrower doesn't appear to be worth it for a lot of teams |
On some teams it might be hit or miss but I don't think that Dark Elves is one of them. Dark Elves are a bit too slow for completely ignoring the quick pass play, so having a runner on the team should be important even now.
To be honest most players probably don't even understand how often they actually used to throw quick passes and will very quickly realise they need a good option to do so even in the future.
I have not played with any Elf team yet but I have played against them. The fact that only thrower can pass effectively will impact them quite a bit, loosing the option to pass play will hurt. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 18:28 |
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Felix17 wrote: | Nelphine wrote: | *shrug* show me a few matches where passing is how the game outcome changed. like i said, i'm sure i'll be proven wrong. |
I think I'll be reluctant to pass with an Elf Blitzer/Catcher/Linelf or a Gutter Runner, most of whom I think are now 4+ or worse to pass. I think this is one of the greatest impacts of the new passing rules, that agile players who were able to leap on a spilled ball and pass it clear are now doing so at much greater risk.
I might have read your position wrong, but I think passing has really changed, and for the worse. They've tried to buff Throwers by making everyone else a lot worse. |
I'm specifically talking about players who will now have a '-' for PA. Overall, I completely agree that passing is messed up very badly, but that particular detail, I don't think will actually matter. |
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sebco
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 19:17 |
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I have to agree. According to me, the only teams which could be (a bit) annoyed by this new rule (some players unauthorized to throw because of PA "-") are Necromantic Horror teams. All their players have a "-" PA except ghouls and werewolves. But they have been globally buffed (in my opinion) in BB 2020 and, if they have no more ghouls and werewolves on the pitch, no passing won't be their number one problem. |
_________________ I like cheese but don't call me skaven ! |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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  Posted:
Nov 21, 2020 - 21:08 |
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The main takeaway from new necros for me it's that you can no longer pick ghoul or wolves as the positional to drop when building a roster, if money is tight
It's bad enough with 4 potential carriers |
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