CAB
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Nov 04, 2020 - 01:00 |
 
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The idea of having 15 games per season and a redraft of 1350 can probably work relatively well and the changes to count the redrafting per game seem OK as well in my opinion.
One issue I can see though are that player you wish to keep might get too many SPP during those fifteen games and the player too expensive to redraft unless you only want a very select few and you can forget redrafting them several seasons in a row.
If you get roughly 2 TD, 2 CAS and 2 Comp per game in average that is 16 SPP per game or 240 SPP for 15 games. You most valuable players probably hog most of the SPP so most stars probably get 30-50 SPP per season. These players you probably become very expensive to redraft with an average of +100k per star at first season and around 140-160 in the second season.
I think the redraft will need to be higher for 15 games to be honest. |
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Doofr
Joined: Nov 04, 2015
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Nov 06, 2020 - 16:24 |
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| Malmir wrote: | | I expect many races to be underused as they can’t develop enough at low rating to be competitive. I expect a few races that can to be over represented and to all look the same as once the novelty wears off most people won’t take randoms. I hope I am wrong but it all sounds very dull |
Listen to the man !!! 
PS: I realy think you will be right sadly....
PPS: CAB you dont even play on fumbbl, dont understand what you are trying to do in this thread.. |
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Sharkrudi
Joined: Dec 19, 2011
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| Posted:
Nov 06, 2020 - 18:14 |
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will there be an adaptation of rosters that are not yet or no longer in the bb2020 such as amazon, vampire, high elf, norse, slann, bretonnian, khorne, tomb king and chaos dwarf on fuumbbl? |
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Uber
Joined: Mar 22, 2004
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Nov 06, 2020 - 18:23 |
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Really what I'd like in [C] would be for teams to have different redraft cap options: low, mid, high.
Existing teams could have access to any level. New teams would unlock mid after completing their second season, and high after their third season.
Not sure what the numbers should be though. Maybe 1300, 1600 or 1900? But the other question is how would that play with the majors? |
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Recovering FUMBBL addict. |
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Uber
Joined: Mar 22, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 06, 2020 - 18:29 |
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| Sharkrudi wrote: | | will there be an adaptation of rosters that are not yet or no longer in the bb2020 such as amazon, vampire, high elf, norse, slann, bretonnian, khorne, tomb king and chaos dwarf on fuumbbl? |
The only roster that is expected to "get the axe" within those is Slann. It's not 100% confirmed, but apparently GW has only included teams they can sell in the rule book and the others will be supported by another rule extension document. |
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Recovering FUMBBL addict. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 06, 2020 - 18:35 |
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| Doofr wrote: | | Malmir wrote: | | I expect many races to be underused as they can’t develop enough at low rating to be competitive. I expect a few races that can to be over represented and to all look the same as once the novelty wears off most people won’t take randoms. I hope I am wrong but it all sounds very dull |
Listen to the man !!!
PS: I realy think you will be right sadly....
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Once the optimum routes for each race have been worked out, how many people woud do anything else? |
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[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Nov 06, 2020 - 19:00 |
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| Uber wrote: | Really what I'd like in [C] would be for teams to have different redraft cap options: low, mid, high.
Existing teams could have access to any level. New teams would unlock mid after completing their second season, and high after their third season.
Not sure what the numbers should be though. Maybe 1300, 1600 or 1900? But the other question is how would that play with the majors? |
That sounds worse than what we have now. Or do you mean that you would only match low vs low, mid vs mid & high vs high. I don't think that there would be enough coaches for that.
I hear that inducements will be cheaper, but with that make up for being able to pick your skills to 2000+?
It seems to me that your idea is against the spirit of the new rules.
I am guessing that highish TV is now expected to stink and high TV is expected to stink worse than it does now. Isn't that why the suggested cap is so low?
I can't see how high or mid/high TV can work without keeping some portion oof the old rules. |
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[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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Doofr
Joined: Nov 04, 2015
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| Posted:
Nov 06, 2020 - 20:54 |
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| koadah wrote: | | Doofr wrote: | | Malmir wrote: | | I expect many races to be underused as they can’t develop enough at low rating to be competitive. I expect a few races that can to be over represented and to all look the same as once the novelty wears off most people won’t take randoms. I hope I am wrong but it all sounds very dull |
Listen to the man !!!
PS: I realy think you will be right sadly....
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Once the optimum routes for each race have been worked out, how many people woud do anything else? |
Not a lot for sure, if thoses coachs are looking for first in BB a competitive game... |
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Uber
Joined: Mar 22, 2004
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Nov 06, 2020 - 21:17 |
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@koadah
Yeah I'm saying the spirit of the new rules sucks and I propose something different. If high TV is utterly broken with these new rules, well anyone who's interested can play it. Sounds like fun to me.
I believe blackbox will still matched primarily by TV, so just redraft low if you wanna stay out of craziness. And you get much more control on managing your TV in the new rules. Just don't force everyone into that mold. |
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Recovering FUMBBL addict. |
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Lyracian
Joined: Oct 29, 2015
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| Posted:
Nov 06, 2020 - 23:14 |
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I think 1300, or 1350 will work for Black Box it is intended to be highly competitive. If the meta does not turn into majority Dwarfs I can see having some fun with Goblins. It will be a lot harder for some teams under the new rules than others. Not sure I will play Necro or Nurgle under the new rules. It does open up other avenues though as Humans look to better.
My thought is that we will see a lot more of inducements. EDIT (for clarity): Teams will be winning the majority of the 100k cost most Inducements have each game.
Expenses mean you have to keep spending it or risk losing half your treasury. No dead players last game? Great let us buy some kegs of Beer, team re-roll or a biased ref for upcoming match. |
Last edited by Lyracian on %b %07, %2020 - %15:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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SkittleMosaic
Joined: May 17, 2018
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Nov 07, 2020 - 02:53 |
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@Lyracian, You'll be getting ~70-80k per game (~4+d3FA each + 1-2TDs), but since the the cap is so low the average player will only need ~120k treasury for the rebuy which increases inducements too. But a free Prayers to Nuffle roll/50k down after inducements makes buying inducements not as rough on the other player.
If we wanted to lower inducement amounts, keep the TV within reason without being too restrictive, reward wins without it having too much impact, and get rid of house rules then the seasons could just be ~8 games long with no cap. The average player would have 1600k to spend on a rebuy (360k treasury+160k for 8 games+80k for 4 wins) and giving ~1400TV after retention fees since they go up twice as fast. Why it would lower inducements is because you'd need to save 290k (+70k from the last match) to get the best rebuy without risking expensive mistakes, leaving ~200k to spend over 8 games I.e. just enough to replace dead players. The final TV wouldn't get that high unless you go out of your way because even if you won every game you'd only get ~1500TV after a rebuy and only 8 games to skill up again.
Edit: Elves and Skaven are probably getting more than 1 TD/game but they're also replacing more dead players. |
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Lyracian
Joined: Oct 29, 2015
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Nov 07, 2020 - 09:49 |
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| pielover101 wrote: | @Lyracian, You'll be getting ~70-80k per game (~4+d3FA each + 1-2TDs),
Edit: Elves and Skaven are probably getting more than 1 TD/game but they're also replacing more dead players. |
I know the numbers it was me that corrected you a couple of pages back. That is, in my eyes, the best part of 100k winning. My Skaven averaged 2.5 TD last season, from a TV 1000 start. My Lizardmen managed 2.1 TD average in the 11 friendly games they played. Where as my Nurgle managed 1.8 TV as a second season developed team.
| pielover101 wrote: | but since the the cap is so low the average player will only need ~120k treasury for the rebuy which increases inducements too.
get rid of house rules then the seasons could just be ~8 games long with no cap. The average player would have 1600k to spend on a rebuy (360k treasury+160k for 8 games+80k for 4 wins)
The final TV wouldn't get that high unless you go out of your way because even if you won every game you'd only get ~1500TV after a rebuy and only 8 games to skill up again.
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Season length will have an impact. The only guide for size we have is a division should have a minimum of 4 teams from the rule book. Two divisions would be 6 League games and 4 Friendly for 10 Games. I assume teams not in the play offs get to play two more Friendly games (bot that is not stated either way) for a total of 12 games as my view of what a standard season should be.
240k - 12 Games
060k - Average 2/2/2 in League
250k Treasury (average)
1550k as redraft budget.
With agency fees that would put us around 1400 TV for the returning team.
You would be willing to take more risk with Treasury than I would if you take it up to 350k; I would not want the 1/6 change of losing half of it just to get 60k more than sticking at 290k.
| pielover101 wrote: | | But a free Prayers to Nuffle roll/50k down after inducements makes buying inducements not as rough on the other player. |
I need to study the table more but not convinced I would care about giving my opponent two rolls on the table compared to the benefits of two Kegs or Biased Ref (depending on team). |
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SkittleMosaic
Joined: May 17, 2018
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| Posted:
Nov 07, 2020 - 11:41 |
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At the moment you don't have to roll expensive mistakes until you ready the team. If that is the case in bb2020 then your treasury after the last game is not subject to expensive mistakes and you can get to ~360k without the 1/6 risk.
I didnt realise you were the one that corrected me before, my bad  but I am still confused as to how you are getting 100k winnings/game? Even at 2.5 TDs/game its only an average of 85k? |
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dolphinandrew
Joined: May 09, 2017
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| Posted:
Nov 07, 2020 - 12:11 |
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A lot of this discussion just makes me worry that the new post match/experience system is going to be fairly heavy on tedious micro-management.
I like team building in BB as much as the next coach, but this new system seems to have a lot of extra book work for, as far as I can see, fairly marginal benefit.
Perhaps it won't be too bad in practice for online play. But I certainly don't fancy trying it in a physical league. |
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Lyracian
Joined: Oct 29, 2015
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| Posted:
Nov 07, 2020 - 15:03 |
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| pielover101 wrote: | | At the moment you don't have to roll expensive mistakes until you ready the team. If that is the case in bb2020 then your treasury after the last game is not subject to expensive mistakes and you can get to ~360k without the 1/6 risk. |
Given the Glittering Prizes section has a line saying you get your prize money after Expensive Mistakes in the post game step of the Finals and Expensive Mistakes is listed as step 5 of the post game I think we can conclude you have to make that 1/6 roll.
| pielover101 wrote: | | I didnt realise you were the one that corrected me before, my bad but I am still confused as to how you are getting 100k winnings/game? Even at 2.5 TDs/game its only an average of 85k? |
I think I need to edit my post if it was that unclear. I was trying to say that teams will be spending 100k on Inducements* most games since they will be winning the majority, not all, of that amount each game and with less SI/Dead players have nothing else to spend it on.
*On reflection that figure may not be accurate since we now have more options that are not in 50k increments. For example the Biased Ref at 80k and temp Coach at 20k. |
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