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Poll
Is DF worth sacrificing roster strength for more gold?
Yes
35%
 35%  [ 6 ]
No
64%
 64%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 17


Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 02:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Simple question now that most of us have the rules. Is DF worth taking in a league setting over a fully efficient roster?

For this example, let's say you are playing in a 6 game league.

Some people have said the average winnings should be 40-60k gold per game. However for teams who don't invest in any DF, your winnings look to be 20-40k per game with an extra 5k per touchdown.

For reference the formula is

[(DF+D3) + (DF+D3) + Your Touchdowns] * 5

With two teams with no DF, thus starting with only one, we now get at maximum

[4+4]*5

That is 40k gold. 50k if your team scores two touchdowns.

What are your thoughts?

It seems if both teams invest into DF, you can see a large amount of gold from the word go. But if neither team does, you could be in trouble.


Last edited by Wolbum on Dec 20, 2020 - 03:41; edited 1 time in total
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 03:13 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the biggest safe guard is to invest in DF. If you're playing a one off 6 game league you may want to invest in players and go for a stronger team on paper, but depending on your race, even across 6 games you will need cash to buy replacements.

If you're in a multi-season league, even short 6 game ones, you should invest in DF.

Unless you're a Dwarf team. You wont lose many players due to AV10+ spam and it will add to your surely and bitter reputation haha
Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 03:21 Reply with quote Back to top

WHat's DF? Dorf Feet?..

AVOID AT ALL COSTS.
Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 03:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Jeffro wrote:
WHat's DF? Dorf Feet?..

AVOID AT ALL COSTS.


Laughing It means Dedicated Fans. It's what Fan factor used to be. FF now is the over arching term.
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 05:43 Reply with quote Back to top

DF is Dedicated Fans, they come to every game. Ranges from 1 to 6.

Fan Factor is DF + 1d3, that's how many came to this game.

Fan Attendance is both team's Fan Factor added together.

Your winnings is half the Fan Attendance, plus the TDs you scored, all times 10k.

So real winnings is in favour of some serious elfball.

--

Mathwise ...

In six games it should earn you nearly twice what it costs you. So if you've got 20k spare, because there's a decent 980k build for the team, you're likely to earn 40k extra for it, and if your opponents are doing it, that's another 40k earned.

The more you win, the more reliable that is. Lose a lot and a bigger DF spend can vanish quick, but it's right on average. Realistically, you're worse off after game 1, equal after game 2, and then it's a bit dicier with DF randomly growing or shrinking for wins and losses, but still on average gaining you a bit.

--

Gaming it, I think if you're high AV bash that's feature complete at 1000k, hoping to cripple other teams early and win 2-0, don't buy it, cuts their winnings right back, and otherwise, unless you super need something after exactly one game that 20k saved will help on, just buy it up.

The more you're going to win, the better it is, but even if you're just losing a lot, at least a couple points extra seems wise.

_________________
ImageImage
Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 07:08 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm going to continue referring to DF as Dorf Feet. I may even make reroll counters out of 2nd edition dorfs I have already decapitated in order to make use of their feet now. I see nothing wrong with this.
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 08:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not sure it's worth compromising to a suboptimal build just to free up buying Dorf Feet.

With the plan for here, even if you lose all 15 games and never score a touchdown you'll still bring in 600k (40 X 15). Assuming you want to put aside 200k for redraft to get to 1350TV ,then 400k still goes quite a long way in 15 games. Especially as if you've played 7-8 games and haven't won (or even scored) you may as well write the season off and ensure maximum funds for the next one. (EDIT: in fact you can rest assured that you'll almost certainly earn the 200k you want in the last 5 games, so you have 400k to spend in 10 games. Then decide whether just to save the last 5 games income)

Saying that if I had 10-20k spare after the build I'd almost certainly put it into DF
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 09:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Also, with the TV cap at 1300k, whats the point of hoarding cash if you have to "lose it" when your redraft budget exceeds that 1300k? 1000k+20k/g+20k/w+10k/d+Treasury. With 15 game seasons, thats 300k just for playing. Why build a treasury and hence why have investment in DF?
Muff2n



Joined: May 20, 2017

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 09:21 Reply with quote Back to top

In open match making it will be better. In a closed league, that's money to your opponent too!
razmus



Joined: Jun 23, 2017

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 13:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Jeffro wrote:
WHat's DF? Dorf Feet?..

AVOID AT ALL COSTS.


I'm so glad you asked. I thought this was gonna be a discussion of the new 'Defensive' skill... and I was getting real confused.

Jeffro wrote:
I'm going to continue referring to DF as Dorf Feet. I may even make reroll counters out of 2nd edition dorfs I have already decapitated in order to make use of their feet now. I see nothing wrong with this.


And DF stink (they don't believe in socks in their mining boots), so they have a DP. Line'em up on the sideline, and no one will dare attempt to pass down that side!
Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 21:51 Reply with quote Back to top

ClayInfinity wrote:
Also, with the TV cap at 1300k, whats the point of hoarding cash if you have to "lose it" when your redraft budget exceeds that 1300k? 1000k+20k/g+20k/w+10k/d+Treasury. With 15 game seasons, thats 300k just for playing. Why build a treasury and hence why have investment in DF?


From my understanding FUMBBL is 10k per game, hence the 15 game seasons. Normally it is 20k per game. But the recommended division size in the rulebook is 4 people play each other twice, so six game standard season.

But yes you are right regarding treasury. However I am on the flip side. I don't see how anyone can expect to reach the same level of wealth as we do now unless both teams invest the full 5 DF (Dedicated Fans for people who keep thinking it's smelly Dorf feet) which would mean a minimum of 70k gold after the first game which is quite significant.
Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 21, 2020 - 00:56 Reply with quote Back to top

C0ddlefish wrote:
I'm not sure it's worth compromising to a suboptimal build just to free up buying Dorf Feet.

With the plan for here, even if you lose all 15 games and never score a touchdown you'll still bring in 600k (40 X 15). Assuming you want to put aside 200k for redraft to get to 1350TV ,then 400k still goes quite a long way in 15 games. Especially as if you've played 7-8 games and haven't won (or even scored) you may as well write the season off and ensure maximum funds for the next one. (EDIT: in fact you can rest assured that you'll almost certainly earn the 200k you want in the last 5 games, so you have 400k to spend in 10 games. Then decide whether just to save the last 5 games income)

Saying that if I had 10-20k spare after the build I'd almost certainly put it into DF


This man gets style points...
Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 21, 2020 - 05:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Doing some quick math comparing a 6 DF (Dedicated fans) team to a 0 DF fan team with 0 bank and a 60k bank team, this is what I've come up with over the course of a six game season. Keep in mind this is assuming a few things.

- Both players roll a 1 on the D3 in every case
- The DF keeps dropping after every game (you lose)
- The player fails to score any touchdowns

This is how the gold goes up per match

6 DF: 45 - 85 - 120- 150- 175- 195

60k Gold and no DF: 80 - 100 - 120 - 140- 160- 180

0 DF and 0 Gold: 20 - 40- 60- 80 - 100- 120

However the biggest highlight comes from if every single team in your league has invested completely into DF, to the maximum of purchasing 5, maxing at 6.

Assuming that everyones DF is dropping we get this

12 DF (combined you and opp):

70- 130- 180 - 230- 260- 280

Absolutely enormous. Still I think it's worth considering. So for those who go 100% in without any DF, they are going to struggle to get any serious cash income and can expect an apothecary earliest by game 3. Game 2 if they are lucky and can score.
Badoek



Joined: May 17, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 21, 2020 - 10:01 Reply with quote Back to top

So you hope for others to get DF while you don't get it?
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 21, 2020 - 13:21 Reply with quote Back to top

I would not compromise my team build for extra Dedicated Fans. I would spend any free cash on getting it and if there are two team builds that are both considered strong this could tip me to the lower cost build to get more DF.
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