CAB
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Nov 15, 2020 - 00:29 |
 
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The thing is that you can choose to use the +1 or not. So you can always avoid the "Wildly Inaccurate" result on the throw. So a Cannoneer can choose to use the modification or not on any "Long" or "Long Bomb" pass.
All skills are optional unless stated otherwise, the rules text for the skill also state that you MAY add a +1 to any Long or Long Bomb pass roll for example as well.
This is how you avoid the "Wildly Inaccurate" result as it only occur on a roll that is modified to a "1". "Wildly Inaccurate" is not on a one or less result. |
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CAB
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 15, 2020 - 00:34 |
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| Macavity wrote: | | So...... What I'm understanding is CAB is a playtester? |
Not an official one at least... but since the rules leak I have played maybe a dozen or so tabletop games... or there about.
So I have at least done some testing with the game...  |
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sebco
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
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Nov 15, 2020 - 00:36 |
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| CAB wrote: | The thing is that you can choose to use the +1 or not. So you can always avoid the "Wildly Inaccurate" result on the throw. So a Cannoneer can choose to use the modification or not on any "Long" or "Long Bomb" pass.
All skills are optional unless stated otherwise, the rules text for the skill also state that you MAY add a +1 to any Long or Long Bomb pass roll for example as well.
This is how you avoid the "Wildly Inaccurate" result as it only occur on a roll that is modified to a "1". "Wildly Inaccurate" is not on a one or less result. |
Yep, I agree on that.
Players with Cannoneer skill will be abble to avoid Wildly inaccurate on long passes and long bombs. Players with Accurate skill will be abble to avoid Wildly inaccurate on quick passes and short passes.
And I'm waiting for FAQ to know if players with PA 1+ are always abble to avoid Wildly inaccurate passes or not. |
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I like cheese but don't call me skaven ! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Nov 15, 2020 - 08:27 |
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I would assume wildly inaccurate will receive a very early faq as its currently....Well..., just stupid. |
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Felix17
Joined: May 23, 2019
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Nov 15, 2020 - 09:24 |
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| Garion wrote: | | I would assume wildly inaccurate will receive a very early faq as its currently....Well..., just stupid. |
I hope so, though years of playing me Warhammer Fantasy Battle taught me never to overestimate GW's ability to write clear, logical rules, or their willingness to rectify glaring errors.
It might be a storm in a teacup, but along with the nerfing of non-throwers ability to pass the ball, Wildly Inaccurate just makes the risk/reward of passing so much worse. I can't see how passing will be more of a thing than it is at present |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Nov 15, 2020 - 14:50 |
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i think the big mistake in terms of passing in this edition is they have made it more specialised which in its self is fine, but then they have charged extra for it. If it is a free perk of specialised players then fine, but making throwers cost more just makes them even less attractive.
High Ma ball carriers are big winners in this edition, being able to stay well out of reach jumping over prone players is win. Skaven and Necro FTW |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Nov 15, 2020 - 15:54 |
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Also, seems to me (but I could be wrong) that you need 1-2 skills on Throwers to make passing reliable and that increases further their TV cost, then Season Redraft happens and you have to fire them or carry the bloat. |
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CAB
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 15, 2020 - 16:36 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | Also, seems to me (but I could be wrong) that you need 1-2 skills on Throwers to make passing reliable and that increases further their TV cost, then Season Redraft happens and you have to fire them or carry the bloat. |
But then you also gain skills allot faster in BB2020... you can get three random skills for 13SPP or two chosen skills at 14SPP or one chosen and two random for 16SPP. It gets even cheaper in contrast with before after this.
Gaining skills will probably not be a huge problem in BB2020. They have reduced the time for progressing players by allot in the new rules to accommodate the new drafting system.
Teams that pass the ball occasionally probably will want to carry over at least one thrower from season to season. |
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rremy
Joined: Oct 01, 2012
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| Posted:
Nov 15, 2020 - 16:51 |
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| CAB wrote: | The thing is that you can choose to use the +1 or not. So you can always avoid the "Wildly Inaccurate" result on the throw. So a Cannoneer can choose to use the modification or not on any "Long" or "Long Bomb" pass.
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You're right, I haven't considered that case. Cannoneer is better than I thought. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Nov 15, 2020 - 16:58 |
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It's not a matter of getting faster the skills (and 2 SPPs difference is not much), the problem is the increase in TV. |
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CAB
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 15, 2020 - 22:19 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | It's not a matter of getting faster the skills (and 2 SPPs difference is not much), the problem is the increase in TV. |
How so... three random passing skills on a thrower only increase your TV with +30k, that is not a huge amount for three skills. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Nov 15, 2020 - 22:49 |
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I don't think that taking random skills would be the right move.
The first skills you take must be useful, so I guess they have to be picked, not randomized.
Also, those SPPs could be invested on another player, for example a Runner/Catcher player.
Why bothering skilling a Thrower, when you can build a fast Runner/Catcher?
I mean, if a Thrower is quite reliable out of the box, using him can be ok, but if you have to invest on a more expensive (than now) Thrower and then skilling him up too then you can just invest the SPPs on another player with a better starting statline and not bother with a Thrower at all.
Hard to say without testing the rules in actual play, of course. |
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CAB
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 15, 2020 - 23:10 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | I don't think that taking random skills would be the right move.
The first skills you take must be useful, so I guess they have to be picked, not randomized.
Also, those SPPs could be invested on another player, for example a Runner/Catcher player.
Why bothering skilling a Thrower, when you can build a fast Runner/Catcher?
I mean, if a Thrower is quite reliable out of the box, using him can be ok, but if you have to invest on a more expensive (than now) Thrower and then skilling him up too then you can just invest the SPPs on another player with a better starting statline and not bother with a Thrower at all.
Hard to say without testing the rules in actual play, of course. |
But throwers gain SPP quite reliably by simply throwing the ball, so they don't really contend with a runner. The thrower just means you can stretch out the field more and that can be quite advantageous against allot of teams. It really depend on your opposition.
I have no problem of taking random passing skills on a thrower and simply adjust my strategy around what skill he has.
I actually have a human thrower right now where I picked random skills and he is at 15 SPP with three skill. He got Dump-off, Nerves of Steel and Hail Mary pass and in that order for a measly +30TV.
To be honest it has been a pretty fun and unusual time using him and it have been quite successful so far.
We have played about a dozen or so test games with the new rules so far and five of those game with my human team. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Nov 15, 2020 - 23:20 |
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Human Throwers are useful indeed for Leader access and because the team has no AG 4 players, but I was thinking about Skaven Throwers. A Gutter Runner could still be the best ball carrier with the new rules.
I stretch the field better with a Gutter Runner, no need to pass most of times, just running with the ball.
About your Thrower: Dump-Off, Nerves of Steel and Hail Mary Pass
these skills don't make him exactly a reliable Thrower, he's a sort of runner/punter with Dump-Off while Hail Mary Pass allows to punt away the ball but not accurately to a far catcher. Also, Dump-Off has no synergy with Hail Mary Pass. |
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CAB
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 15, 2020 - 23:39 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Human Throwers are useful indeed for Leader access and because the team has no AG 4 players, but I was thinking about Skaven Throwers. A Gutter Runner could still be the best ball carrier with the new rules.
I stretch the field better with a Gutter Runner, no need to pass most of times, just running with the ball.
About your Thrower: Dump-off, Nerves of Steel and Hail Mary pass
these skills don't make him exactly a reliable Thrower, he's a sort of runner with Dump-Off while Hail Mary allows to punt away the ball but not accurately to a far catcher. |
In the game I have used him he usually actually sit deep or run around in the back field... usually with a catcher near by.
Nerves of Steal actually can make his throws quite reliable. If he run up and stand next to someone I can use Nerves of Steel to throw the ball and avoid "Wildly Inacurate" results for example... I have used that a couple of times... he also can assits in blocks at the same time.
You have to imagine how to use your players differently when rolling random skills... you probably also don realise how useful skills can be even if situational, especially when you have plenty of them.
I actually decided to go ALL random on this team just as a test and it have worked out really well. As those primary skills only add 10k make a huge difference and you gain skills really fast versus someone that pick their skills.
If you play in a league that is like 8-10 games long per season this really matters. You then redraft the players that got the most useful random skill and keep them for next season.
To be honest this actually will likely work allot better than people think.
If you play in leagues that are more like 15-20 games long then 45SPP might top out a player in one season so picking skills might actually be smarter for allot of players accept maybee linemen or other fodder players.
In general random skills will work allot better on short leagues as in 8-12 games, that is for sure.
For kicks I just rolled three additional skills for that Thrower he could get for a mere 45SPP...
On the Ball, Cannoneer and Cloud Burster.
He could top out as a really great thrower for only 140k in TV. His only weak game would be short passes, but you should be able to avoid them most of the time... |
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