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Poll
Is Pro in BB2020 a core skill like Block and Dodge?
Yes - Pro looks awesome!
37%
 37%  [ 32 ]
Nah, Pro is unreliable.
21%
 21%  [ 18 ]
Not sure, but I am willing to give it a try.
34%
 34%  [ 29 ]
I want nothing to do with BB2020...
7%
 7%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 85


Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 22:47 Reply with quote Back to top

The new Pro skill is a 3+ roll instead of 4+. On top of that, there is a new action, "jump" for which there is no other skill to re-roll it.

Pro has always been great for loners, Big Guys and vampires, but now it turns your crappy lineman into a swiss army knife - able to reliably pick up, Pass, Dodge, Block, Leap (ok "jump"), go for it, escape tentacles etc.

Also, using Pro lets you save your rerolls for later. And now that you can use multiple rerolls a turn, saving them is even better!

Does this tilt the odds into making "Pro" a core skill, up there with Block, Wrestle, Dodge and Guard?

Some Pro math:

2+, no reroll
succeeds on 5/6
~83%

2+ with pro reoll
succeeds on 5/6 + 1/6*2/3*5/6
~93%

2+ with reoll
succeeds on 5/6 + 1/6*5/6
~97%

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PeteW



Joined: Aug 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 22:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes.

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CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 00:07 Reply with quote Back to top

An agility 3+ player with Pro skill basically dodge as if they had agility 2+ with no re-roll, that is not bad... as they suddenly do everything as good as an agility 2+ player with no re-roll ability. It is 81% rather than 83% for a 2+ player.

Even if passing is not super useful Pro will also increase the chance of Interfere with a pass. There are no other way to re-roll interference as Team Re-rolls can't be used in the opponents turn.

A Dark Elf runner might also benefit from Pro as that give you a good chance to pick up the ball and/or use Dump Off or Interfere with the ball as "On the Ball" also might be a useful skill for a Runner. You might even pick Pro before Dodge on them.

Pro is very useful on any player with little skill as it makes everything they do that much safer. Even a Blitzer with Block skill might benefit as re-rolling a single Block dice also make it that more likely to get a knock down result instead of a Push or sometimes a Both Down that do nothing.

A Pro player with no Block or Wrestle skill fail a 2D block in 1/15... or so I think... that is not too bad given all the other benefits.
A Pro player with Block/Wrestle skill fail a single die block also at 1/15 odds.


Last edited by CAB on Dec 13, 2020 - 02:50; edited 2 times in total
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 01:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 08:02 Reply with quote Back to top

It is still unreliable but is better. Player is slightly good at everything rather than being excellent at one thing.

Certainly a random skill I will happily keep on the team.
stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 10:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Can you use pro on your opponents turn? I.e. dump offs, interceptions?
I din't have the latest rules so don't know the answer
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 10:30 Reply with quote Back to top

You can only use it when player is activated (so, as I read it, during your turn but not during opponent turn).

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CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 17:06 Reply with quote Back to top

sebco wrote:
You can only use it when player is activated (so, as I read it, during your turn but not during opponent turn).


There is a difference between player Activation and being the Active team.

I take it as when a player interrupts anything and definitely in a Blitz kick of result the players is activated even if it is not your turn. You may not use re-rolls during a Blitz for example as you team is not the active team.

So I would probably allow the use of Pro in Dump Off and possibly Interference rolls for that reason.

But I would like to see an FAQ on that as it definitely is not explained very well in the rules what player activation mean exactly.

Another oddity would also be that the player would not be able to use Pro to catch a ball either as that is technically not activating the player from the standpoint of activating the player during your turn.

In my opinion a player activate when they need to roll a dice to do something like a skill roll... but I might just be wrong on that.

Skill re-rolls also clearly say that they can be used in either teams turns, so the question is what a player activation actually means.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 18:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Not directly related to Pro... but depending on how you read thing then you can't use the Dodge skill during a Blitz as it can explicitly only be used once per "team" turn when the player is activated. A Blitz is not your turn... neither can you use it if the player is moved as part of "On the Ball" to Interfere with a pass action either in that case.

I think this is just clumsy written and you probably can use it once every time the player is activated... problem is what constitute player activation?!?
uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 18:46 Reply with quote Back to top

is good for a wrestle/strip sacker or a dauntless type, -2db becomes quite reliable with pro now that you can chose to reroll only a single dice.

Problem is while its useful on pretty much every player, does it really replace other secondary skills like guard, MB, tackle etc? I think probably not, it seem more like a 3rd, 4th or 5th skill pick - and as a consequence we might not see it that often on our tv 1350 teams.
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 21:34 Reply with quote Back to top

For HE linelfs, I typically go Block>Dodge>SideStep (without a doubles of course), but I could conceivably see making Pro the 3rd skill there instead...
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 14, 2020 - 03:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
The new Pro skill ... escape tentacles etc.


Errata on myself after reading the new rules. Pro can NOT be used to escape tentacles - the roll is made by the coach of the tentacles player, similar to shadowing.

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I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
Traul



Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 14, 2020 - 15:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Pro is strictly better than Brawler, the other skill that can reroll a single dice. Brawler's restriction to reroll only Both Down is always worse than Pro's 2/3 chance of working because one would always like to rr skulls at least, and likely pushes on a 2D block. Pro working on blitzes and non-blocking rolls is just icing on the cake.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 14, 2020 - 17:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Can Pro still be used for bonehead and blood lust equivalent rolls? If so still is important for Vamps and definitely a good second choice double for many Big Guys after block (though many would still prefer Dodge).

As others says probably not something you would specifically choose for the first couple of skills of many players, but definitely can't be dismissed like in the past. The occasional multi-season killer or sacker may enjoy it. Very hard to see an Elf take it before Dodge unless about to face Dwarfs.

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2020 - 07:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Traul wrote:
Pro is strictly better than Brawler, the other skill that can reroll a single dice. Brawler's restriction to reroll only Both Down is always worse than Pro's 2/3 chance of working because one would always like to rr skulls at least, and likely pushes on a 2D block. Pro working on blitzes and non-blocking rolls is just icing on the cake.


Yep - you can safely choose to pro reroll one die if the other one is a push, knowing you can't end up strictly worse than you already are.

_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
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