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rremy



Joined: Oct 01, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 09:12 Reply with quote Back to top

I have a question about the interaction between Strip Ball and Sure Pair of Hands (a new skill from BB2020) and I haven't see any discussion here about it.

Last sentence of Strip Ball is: "The ball will bounce from the square the player is pushed back into, as if they had been Knocked Down" while the first sentence of Safe Pair of Hands is "If this player is Knocked Down or Place Prone (but not if they Fall Over) whilst in possession of the ball, the ball does not bounce."

Does it mean that Safe Pair of Hands is usable against Strip Ball or not ? I think so, but I am a little biased because I play Chaos Renegades. On our French forum, there is a disagreement on this question.
Pedda



Joined: Mar 27, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 09:22 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think you would be able to use safe pair of hands because safe pair of hands clearly states that the player needs to be knocked down. Strip ball doesn't knock the player down, but the ball bounces as if the target was knocked down.
Loki_on_NAF



Joined: Jun 07, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 11:16 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm with Pedda, as you're not knocked down you don't activate 'Safe Pair of Hands' skill.

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DrDeath



Joined: Mar 27, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 13:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Just to be absolutely clear, what if a player with Strip Ball doesn't push the ballcarrier, but knocks him down? Is it a random bounce then or not?
Grasshugger17



Joined: Jun 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 13:33 Reply with quote Back to top

DrDeath wrote:
Just to be absolutely clear, what if a player with Strip Ball doesn't push the ballcarrier, but knocks him down? Is it a random bounce then or not?


In that case Safe Pair of Hands can be used because the strip ball player didn't choose a push back result.
rremy



Joined: Oct 01, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 13:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Just to be clear: the words "as if they had been Knocked Down" confuse me. Without them, it would be pretty clear that you cannot use Safe Pair of Hand against Strip Ball. With them, I am not so sure.


Last edited by rremy on Dec 11, 2020 - 15:23; edited 1 time in total
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 14:52 Reply with quote Back to top

The way I read it you can use safe pair of hands against Strip Ball.
Loki_on_NAF



Joined: Jun 07, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 16:21 Reply with quote Back to top

rremy wrote:
Just to be clear: the words "as if they had been Knocked Down" confuse me. Without them, it would be pretty clear that you cannot use Safe Pair of Hand against Strip Ball. With them, I am not so sure.


The 'as if they had been Knocked Down' is in SB's description - so its providing an exception to the rules in that skills case. So you have to scatter the ball when you would not normally according to the rules like when some is Knocked Down.

When you read SPoH's rule - you highlighted it - it reads 'if this player is Knocked Down'... He hasn't been Knocked Down (he isn't even Placed Prone).

The scatter is 'as if' the player was Knocked Down but he has not been Knocked Down; SPoH can only be used if he has been Knocked Down.

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sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 16:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Completely agree with Pedda and Loki_on_naf.

In the same way, you don't roll for opponent Armour roll when a player with Strip Ball use it on a Push. Player loses the ball "as if they had been Knocked Down" but other Knocked Down effects don't apply.

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AzraelEVA



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 20:18 Reply with quote Back to top

If safe pair of Hands should work against Strip Ball the skill would read. If this player loses the Ball (except because of a failed GFI) then...
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 20:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Loki_on_NAF wrote:
The 'as if they had been Knocked Down' is in SB's description - so its providing an exception to the rules in that skills case.


Amusingly I would use the same argument to say it does work. As if knocked down means you follow all the rules that work when you had been.

Guess we will have to wait for the FAQ in May to get an answer on this and Diving Catch.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 21:29 Reply with quote Back to top

The rule of "Safe Pair of Hands" have a specific condition and that is if the player are either Knocked down or placed Prone... they get to choose. Strip Ball don't do that. Whether they lose the ball as if they were knocked down (follow the rules for scattering the ball from being knocked down) they player is not actually knocked down thus the skill don't work against Strip Ball, at least the way I read it.
NickNutria



Joined: Jul 25, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 22:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm pretty sure safe pair of hands works against strip ball, otherwise the statement: 'as if this player is knocked down' wouldn't exist.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 11, 2020 - 23:52 Reply with quote Back to top

NickNutria wrote:
I'm pretty sure safe pair of hands works against strip ball, otherwise the statement: 'as if this player is knocked down' wouldn't exist.


That is only in reference as to what happens to the ball not the player.
Loki_on_NAF



Joined: Jun 07, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 20:10 Reply with quote Back to top

NickNutria wrote:
I'm pretty sure safe pair of hands works against strip ball, otherwise the statement: 'as if this player is knocked down' wouldn't exist.


Your ignoring the first part of the sentence, the ball scatters 'as if' the player was knocked down. The bit you have highlighted above tells you about how the ball scatters, it's not saying anything about the player with Safe Hands. It's not there so Sage Pair of Hands is triggered

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