FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Nelphine

Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Posted: Jul 22, 2022 - 21:25

I thought that dp would be 130k?
They aren't low cost, they're way overcost

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 01:40

About MNG players, I'd like to have this rule: the MNG players replaced by Loner Rookies of the same position for free (not just Linemen, the positionals as well).
So, for example, if I play as Khemri and 2 Tomb Guardians are MNG, the next game 2 Loner Rookie Tomb Guardians replace them.
While certain teams can afford to play with some MNG positionals, other teams, such as Lizardmen and Khemri, really need to play with the full positional roster.
I would leave the +30k fee only if you want to add skills, but if you are happy with just a Loner Rookie positional you should not pay +30k.
Loner is already a proper handicap.

mekutata

Joined: May 03, 2015

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 09:51

MattDakka wrote:

About MNG players, I'd like to have this rule: the MNG players replaced by Loner Rookies of the same position for free (not just Linemen, the positionals as well).
So, for example, if I play as Khemri and 2 Tomb Guardians are MNG, the next game 2 Loner Rookie Tomb Guardians replace them.
While certain teams can afford to play with some MNG positionals, other teams, such as Lizardmen and Khemri, really need to play with the full positional roster.
I would leave the +30k fee only if you want to add skills, but if you are happy with just a Loner Rookie positional you should not pay +30k.
Loner is already a proper handicap.

To me, it's part of the flair of a non picking environment that teams do not always field the "optimal" team set up.

While the Lizard might have to rely less on their monster wall of Lizards due mng, the Khemri team might lack their one well developed ball carrier. Both will need trying to adapt their game. A Halfling team might have a gud lucky day because their human opponents won but got smashed physically in their last game against some dumb Ogres. In another game a dominant Elf squad has to focus rather on survival than high scoring.
Loner, as the players are not part of the general tem's training session, makes also sense here. Alternative, no Loner but worse stats than regular linemen (f.i. lower AG or ST).

I think non progression tournaments might be something that you would enjoy. Set up the "optimal team within given constraints" and with that squad in every upcoming game against other "optimal" teams.

But in progression environments this feels right and fun, in best case in addition with well balanced inducement costs.

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MerryZ

Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 10:41

One of the biggest problems 2020 has is that we dont have Pie throwing halfling gurlie ;((((

Also horrible MNG suggestion.

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MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 11:29

Feel free to explain in detail why my suggestion is horrible.
Especially in private leagues, it can make a big difference playing a final game with 2 MNG positionals.

mekutata wrote:

To me, it's part of the flair of a non picking environment that teams do not always field the "optimal" team set up.

If you play with 2 Loner Tomb Guardians your team set up is not "optimal".

C0ddlefish

Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 11:38

I'd rather my league was more like a proper sport (given BB is a fantasy sports game). Football, Rugby, NFL, etc. Every team at some point misses some players through injury.

Part of the fun/challenge is coping without those players.

As said above, if you always want both teams to be optimal in every game then that's what resurrection style play is for

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 11:45

Resurrection has no progression and it's terribly boring, not to mention that the playable teams are narrowed down in that format. I want to be able to skill up my players.
I want the injuries and death, but I don't want to play a game without a full roster.
If 2 skilled positionals are MNG and I get 2 Loner positionals my team is not optimal and I will have to play the next game more carefully, so there still is a challenge. Just, less unbalance.
In real sport yes the players are missed through injury but there are replacements (of lower quality, but there are).
If a real life soccer team's goal keeper is injured he's replaced by another goal keeper, not by a midfielder.

koadah

Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 12:07

C0ddlefish wrote:

I'd rather my league was more like a proper sport (given BB is a fantasy sports game). Football, Rugby, NFL, etc. Every team at some point misses some players through injury.

Part of the fun/challenge is coping without those players.

As said above, if you always want both teams to be optimal in every game then that's what resurrection style play is for

I think that this is a big part of the split between mindsets.

Some people seem to see this as just a strategy game. Damn, they even call the players "pieces"!

Some people really like a sports simulation/role play element.

Improving the former weakens the latter.

One set of rules is never going to suit all. Ideally, you tweak the rules to suit your league.
I can understand why Christer doesn't want to do that. But, FFS. Wildly inaccurate?

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MerryZ

Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 12:08

MattDakka wrote:

Resurrection has no progression and it's terribly boring, not to mention that the playable teams are narrowed down in that format. I want to be able to skill up my players.
I want the injuries and death, but I don't want to play a game without a full roster.
If 2 skilled positionals are MNG and I get 2 Loner positionals my team is not optimal and I will have to play the next game more carefully, so there still is a challenge. Just, less unbalance.
In real sport yes the players are missed through injury but there are replacements (of lower quality, but there are).
If a real life soccer team's goal keeper is injured he's replaced by another goal keeper, not by a midfielder.

In resurrection all skills and teams are fixed.

Free mng positionals totally ruin league idea of maiming opponent so his next game is tougher.

Also your reference having 2 goalies on team just means they have 2 goalies hired, not one goalie hired whos cousin comes to play when he is going on holidays.

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MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 12:32

MerryZ wrote:

In resurrection all skills and teams are fixed.

I know, but I want to earn my skills by playing games, not having 6 skills given at team creation. Also, in resurrection tournaments if I lose a skilled WD is not an issue, the next game he will be back. I want to risk to lose my skilled players, it's thrilling, but on the other hand I don't want to play games without a full roster (full in terms of "composition", with all the possible positionals I can have).

MerryZ wrote:

Free mng positionals totally ruin league idea of maiming opponent so his next game is tougher.

If you maim 2 Tomb Guardians with Guard and I play the next game with 2 Loner Rookie Tomb Guardians the game will be tougher, but if I can't replace 2 Tomb Guardians my next game will be a joke. It's a huge difference.

MerryZ wrote:

Also your reference having 2 goalies on team just means they have 2 goalies hired, not one goalie hired whos cousin comes to play when he is going on holidays.

Then a team roster should be bigger, with more than 16 players available.
Either you give me the possibility to have a deep bench and hire more positionals so I can replace the MNG positionals with other rostered positionals I hired or you give me Loner positionals.
No real life team plays a game without the full "roster". A good player can be injured, but another one of the same type, less skilled, will replace him.
If we want to make a comparison, real life NFL teams have more than 40 players, if I'm not wrong. Ok, there are more "roles", but you get what I mean. If we want to talk about real life sport we should consider the whole picture. Real life teams have more than 16 players.

koadah

Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 15:07

MattDakka wrote:

.
If we want to make a comparison, real life NFL teams have more than 40 players, if I'm not wrong. Ok, there are more "roles", but you get what I mean. If we want to talk about real life sport we should consider the whole picture. Real life teams have more than 16 players.

Even in the massively wealthy NFL there is a salary cap and teams are not able to always fully cover for injuries. Players may have to cover for other positions.

The same with soccer and other sports. The less money a team has more likely it is that they will have to "make do".

Most leagues do not care anywhere near as much about "parity" as the NFL does.

They definitely do NOT try to balance teams for every match.

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moph

Joined: Sep 16, 2020

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 16:33

koadah wrote:

I think that this is a big part of the split between mindsets.

Some people seem to see this as just a strategy game. Damn, they even call the players "pieces"!

Some people really like a sports simulation/role play element.

Improving the former weakens the latter.

One set of rules is never going to suit all. Ideally, you tweak the rules to suit your league.

This and even more:
not only two coach types( Competitive and Roleplay ),
also two playing environments (online and tabletop)
and finally its even two games (what happens on the pitch and the between games team management).
so there is a lot to come to terms about.

The_Murker

Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 19:50

MattDakka wrote:

Resurrection has no progression and it's terribly boring, not to mention that the playable teams are narrowed down in that format. "EYE" want to be able to skill up my players.
"EYE" want the injuries and death, but "EYE" don't want to play a game without a full roster.
If 2 skilled positionals are MNG and "EYE" get 2 Loner positionals my team is not optimal and "EYE" will have to play the next game more carefully, so there still is a challenge. Just, less unbalance.

"Resurrection.. terribly boring," Nice. Terribly popular as well, but nice to know, once again, what you like.

Your posts contain the word "I" far more than everyone else, as your forum conversations revolve almost exclusively around how the rules affect you, personally, and how, if they were simply adjusted properly, you would lose far, far less games of 'Blood Chess.' I would suggest throwing in a few alternate spellings for your favorite word, like EYE, or AYE, just for fun. Trust us, we will all still know exactly who you are referring to.

Poker is popular because even crappy players beat good players, and have fun doing so. Poker is also popular because the really good players understand they will lose to really bad players sometimes, and MUST learn to accept that, for if good players did not lose to worse players, there would be far fewer 'fish' in the poker ocean to catch and defeat.

Slot machine games pay out almost as much money as they take in, so that the fish win often enough to keep playing. You harvest fish.. you don't catch 100% of them all at once if you want there to be fish in the ocean.

Blood Bowl seeks to give the underdog a chance to win.. it's part of the formula that tries to keep players of all skill levels engaged and entertained. People play it, not robots. Well.. some robots play too, I suppose.

MattDakka's 'Blood Chess' is amazingly entertaining to talk about in every single thread, and would get the CR rankings sorted in short order, I'm sure, but EYE think you would be playing by yourself very quickly. Why play Matt's 'BloodChess' if we can just look at the CR numbers to see who should win? Nothing wacky is going to happen, so why bother? Given the choice between certain defeat playing Dakka at his Blood Chess, and playing a wacky game of Blood Bowl against someone else.. please.. tell me even more about Blood Chess.

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PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 19:56

The realy question I want answered is this...Will MattDakka show up for the UI or is the random scheudle format of such a grand tournament not good enough for him?

I really want to know.

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Kondor

Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Posted: Jul 23, 2022 - 20:24

PainState wrote:

The realy question I want answered is this...Will MattDakka show up for the UI or is the random scheudle format of such a grand tournament not good enough for him?

I really want to know.

I checked my magic 8-ball. It said "Doubtful."