MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
|
 Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 00:26 |
 
|
You could buy a sharpie, draw numbers on your screen, be happy and stop complaining ? |
_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 00:29 |
|
@Nelphine: No, the others try to pick me with Khemri 1800 vs Elves 1500, or with Orcs vs DE way lower, or with Amazons vs HE (not talking about you, just making examples of Super Star and Legend coaches' offers).
I got challenged by Orcs as Wood Elves, when I offered the same match-up, reversed, the offer was not accepted (another Legend coach).
Should I play to entertain my opponents?
As I said, I don't need the GF. Just saying that both the GF and the Box are flawed systems. No need to bring the GF into the discussion about a Box feature I suggested. A GF system to arrange rated games sucks and it will always suck. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %30, %2022 - %00:%Aug; edited 4 times in total |
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 00:30 |
|
|
Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 00:31 |
|
Would your wood elves play my orcs if I bought an apo, and you followed a rule of my creation? I'm thinking, you can't roster wardancers or wood elf linemen.
Your rules are nonsense, and your games should be treated as such. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 00:32 |
|
@Nelphine: I don't play with GF anymore, is that simple enough for you to grasp, as rule?
The nonsense of a top 2 coach in Competitive. It's enough, for me. 
Results, not just yapping.
By the way, if you didn't want to play vs me because you have some rules you follow, no, I would not complain.
My goal (sorry to disappoint you, in case) is not to play with you (I mean, I don't hate you, don't get me wrong, I even share your ideas about TV range etc.), just, my goal is to get on top of Competitive rankings, so you are not essential to achieve that, you could be useful, but not necessary at any cost. If you wanted to play, nice, if you didn't, nice anyway. I'm not crying because you didn't play vs me. You started to talk about that personally since my own rules were discussed in another thread.
About your Apo hate: I didn't know that, but, it makes no difference. You think he sucks (and he does, from a certain perspective). I don't think he totally sucks (he's worse, but not totally useless. 50k to heal a BH Bull Centaur, for example, is a good trade off in my book).
I'm not trying to change your mind, just, we disagree about something that is not secondary.
No Apo means hoping not to suffer BH on a key player, and that is relying on luck, when you could buy an Apo and heal him. It's an approach relying on luck, akin to minmaxing. If the CAS go well, buying no Apo will give you an advantage, but if CAS go bad, no Apo is detrimental. I don't like to hope on not suffering BH/KO on key players. Hence, I like the Apo, despite him being worse than in old rules, I agree on this. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %30, %2022 - %00:%Aug; edited 10 times in total |
|
MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 00:32 |
|
If GF and box are flawed system, why do you all the time bring up rankings from them ? |
_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 00:34 |
|
Because, although flawed, they are the closest thing to official rankings we have here on FUMBBL.
I tried to suggest how to improve them (no GF and ranking decay) but I'm not listened.
I do my best, it's not my fault if logic is not listened to here.
By the way, it's hard to be constructive, when a forum is full of trolls. |
|
|
Burtblahblahblah
Joined: Aug 18, 2003
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 09:23 |
|
Unfortunately, I think that you're not listened to because the things that you want are so specific to you. Compare this thread with Java's blog about stars in RRR. That is a genuine problem that affects people and makes a competition decidedly less fun. Many of your problems are to do with CR (directly or indirectly). It's fine to look at it (I do) and it's fine to want to get it higher, but it doesn't change the game at all. Therefore, it's not a big issue to people.
As for decay... just because Spartako and Purplegoo take a break from here, it doesn't mean they get less good.
Apos are worth taking with some teams but not with others. Surely it's up to the coach to make that decision? It's a calculated risk that sometimes pays off and sometimes doesn't. I wouldn't say it makes the results from a non-apo coach any less valid. |
|
|
Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 10:39 |
|
I regret posting already, but I’m going to post anyway.
I agree with many of Matt’s points and feelings, on the face of them. I think the Glicko system Christer has proposed (inc. decay) for CR is an improvement. I think it’s OK to have preferences for the games you play; be they coach, TV range, team build or any other - it’s your fun, afterall.
The issue comes, as ever, with requesting your version of ‘right’ becomes adopted, as not everyone agrees with it. In super-simplistic terms, we have a system where you can choose your games and one where you put up with what you get. You’re apparently willing to wait for a better quality game, so wait on gamefinder and play someone / something that ticks all of your boxes. Only you will judge yourself because an algorithm didn’t choose the game for you. If your intentions are pure according to your own system, everyone wins.
But of course, that appears to be too easy a solution. |
|
|
JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 11:17 |
|
Matt just wants to have the highest CR on the site and to achieve it in a way that no one can dismiss later.
He plays a lot, so he wants CR decay. That way, people who are higher than him and stop playing for a while drop.
He is unpleasant and only cares about himself, so he wants an automatic pairing system because otherwise people dodge him.
He wants to always have the upper hand, so he dodges people with too much treasure because that's a thing he doesnt control (but he does amass money himself and always brings Bomber to the party).
He says things are unfair and underpriced, but he exploits them first because otherwise he might fall behind in his personal run against all the other cool guys who exploit the flaws in bb2020.
And he offers games that he would refuse himself.
Every single one of the things listed above makes sense. When you put them all together in an antisocial package, you get a CR whore. |
_________________
 |
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 11:23 |
|
|
wintergreen13
Joined: Apr 10, 2011
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 11:25 |
|
Just play Trophy, all the cool coaches are doin' it. Guarantee you'll get lots of difficult matchups. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 12:25 |
|
| Purplegoo wrote: |
The issue comes, as ever, with requesting your version of ‘right’ becomes adopted, as not everyone agrees with it. |
Right, but I suggested an option for a filter in the Box. I didn't ask to force everybody to play with that filter in the Box. An option is not mandatory.
| Purplegoo wrote: | | You’re apparently willing to wait for a better quality game, so wait on gamefinder and play someone / something that ticks all of your boxes. |
While in theory this could work, in reality it never happens. In the best scenario I have to wait for hours or days to find a decent game on GF. That's too much time-consuming, I'm not interested in staring at a monitor for hours or days waiting for a good offer (which is very unlikely). I want to activate and find a good game quickly.
| Burtblahblahblah wrote: | Unfortunately, I think that you're not listened to because the things that you want are so specific to you. Compare this thread with Java's blog about stars in RRR. That is a genuine problem that affects people and makes a competition decidedly less fun. Many of your problems are to do with CR (directly or indirectly). It's fine to look at it (I do) and it's fine to want to get it higher, but it doesn't change the game at all. Therefore, it's not a big issue to people.
|
Well, I don't play personally RRR, so I have nothing to complain about them (it would be really weird to complain about a format I don't play). I agree that there a cost problem of some Stars, some are too cheap for the effect they have on games. The fact is that FUMBBL must stick to official rules, so we have to live with the underpriced Star Players.
| Burtblahblahblah wrote: |
As for decay... just because Spartako and Purplegoo take a break from here, it doesn't mean they get less good. |
Anyway, if you stop playing in a rated division for long time you should lose CR, slowly. Otherwise, there is a paradox, you could become top 1, stop playing in Competitive (but be active on the site, playing in League division) and be forever top 1, no matter if the ruleset changes. This is how modern rankings work, as far as I know. And this is not aimed at a specific coach, it's not important who is top 1 at the moment, just, rankings with decay are more accurate than rankings without decay. This is the point. If I were top 1 I still would suggest the ranking decay.
| Burtblahblahblah wrote: | | Apos are worth taking with some teams but not with others. Surely it's up to the coach to make that decision? It's a calculated risk that sometimes pays off and sometimes doesn't. I wouldn't say it makes the results from a non-apo coach any less valid. |
I never said it makes the results less valid, I just said that, since I don't want to rely on not suffering BH/KO on key players, I like to have the Apo. If I like to have the Apo and I face a coach who doesn't like him I'm playing at a disadvantage in case my opponent is lucky and suffer no BH/KO (or I do not suffer a BH/KO), because my team will be bloated by 50 TV. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %30, %2022 - %15:%Aug; edited 3 times in total |
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 12:45 |
|
| JanMattys wrote: | | Matt just wants to have the highest CR on the site and to achieve it in a way that no one can dismiss later. |
True.
| JanMattys wrote: | | He plays a lot, so he wants CR decay. That way, people who are higher than him and stop playing for a while drop. |
Well, at the moment I'm top 2 in Competitive, so, I'm not that low. I could play some games and get to top 1 without decay, if you think of it. I'm not top 100 or 10. But it's hard to get CR if I can't face the good coaches, do you get that? On GF I can't get them, in the Box I can face Veterans, who are a waste of time, in terms of CR. How am I supposed to climb the rankings if I can't play high rated coaches?
| JanMattys wrote: |
He is unpleasant and only cares about himself, so he wants an automatic pairing system because otherwise people dodge him. |
While that can be true, it's true as well that people dodge me not just for my unpleasantness, they don't like to play hard matches. Otherwise I would receive different offers. I actually receive offers on GF, so I'm not that unpleasant. The problem is that the offers are often unfavourable for me, sometimes even fair, but not worth the CR risk/gain due to opponent's rank. Some games can be easy, but not worth it. Other ones are super blatant cherrypicking attempts by Super Stars and Legends, instead.
| JanMattys wrote: |
He wants to always have the upper hand, so he dodges people with too much treasure because that's a thing he doesnt control (but he does amass money himself and always brings Bomber to the party). |
Not fully true. I want a fair, balanced game, close in terms of TV, racial match-up and coaches' CR, if possible. If I wanted to have the upper hand I would not complain about finding Veterans in the Box, do you get that? I suggested a filter to actually have harder games, which are the opposite of "wanting to have the upper hand".
About buying Bomber: if I could I would change his price to 130k, but the site sticks to official rules.
Since people used Bomber against me I'm forced to use Bomber against other people (or just to buy him to deny him if the other coach can hire him as well), otherwise I'm always at a disadvantage. It's like with cpomb. I did hate it, but I used it because I needed fire to fight the fire. That said, if a game can't be fair and balanced as explained above, yes, I think that, if one of the 2 coaches must have the upper hand, it's better that it's me. It's just normal competitive logic.
| JanMattys wrote: |
He says things are unfair and underpriced, but he exploits them first because otherwise he might fall behind in his personal run against all the other cool guys who exploit the flaws in bb2020. |
The difference is that I would change the unfair and underpriced things, if I could. Since the unfair and underpriced things can't be changed, them I'm forced, by the competitive logic, to use them as well to be on even ground. That said, I faced fxiii some time ago (during his latest Box Trophy 6 run), but I didn't hire the Bomber. That means that I don't always buy Bomber. Just this example is enough to make your sweeping statement invalid.
| JanMattys wrote: |
And he offers games that he would refuse himself. |
Not true. I offered games Elves vs Orcs that people turned down (even Legend and Super Star coaches). I would have accepted them as Orcs, honestly.
| JanMattys wrote: | | very single one of the things listed above makes sense. When you put them all together in an antisocial package, you get a CR whore. |
You are not totally inaccurate, but some things you wrote don't match reality. You seem to speak driven by trolling purpose.
| wintergreen13 wrote: | | Just play Trophy, all the cool coaches are doin' it. Guarantee you'll get lots of difficult matchups. |
I don't like to play low TV teams, it's boring. It could be fun if I were new to BB but not after thousands of games played.
It was already super boring to make new teams to play with the BB2020 rules. |
|
|
awambawamb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
|
| Posted:
Aug 30, 2022 - 13:06 |
|
don't mind me, I'm just here to watch the thread burn |
_________________
"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"
 |
|
|
|
| |
Gnomes are trash
Search
