| Poll |
| Who is the worst positional in the game? |
| Amazon - Python Warrior Thrower |
|
2% |
[ 4 ] |
| Chaos Renegade - Renegade Skaven |
|
2% |
[ 4 ] |
| Chaos Renegade - Renegade Thrower |
|
16% |
[ 22 ] |
| Dark Elf - Assassin |
|
16% |
[ 22 ] |
| Dwarf - Troll Slayer |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| High Elf - Thrower |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Imperial - Imperial Throwers |
|
11% |
[ 16 ] |
| Lizardmen - Chameleon Skink |
|
5% |
[ 8 ] |
| OWA - Old World Human Thrower |
|
3% |
[ 5 ] |
| OWA - Old World Dwarf Blockers |
|
26% |
[ 36 ] |
| Wood Elf - Thrower |
|
2% |
[ 3 ] |
| Orc - Thrower |
|
12% |
[ 17 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 137 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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 Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 12:27 |
 
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Hi all,
Ages ago I asked the question who is the worst positional in the game. In this thread - link
It was a bit rushed as I forgot to include the old Norse thrower and Dark Elf Assassin in the poll. Woops!!!
Anyway - now many rosters have changed and we have some new spectacularly bad players, I will ask the question again.
Who is the worst positional in the game?
NB: I've intentionally left out the stunty teams players and big guys, we can have a new thread for them some time. And I know some of the players below are decent, but possibly not for their price? |
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Last edited by Garion on Jan 27, 2023 - 13:12; edited 1 time in total |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 12:43 |
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The Dark Elf Runner is awful as well, I'd add him to the list. For sure he's worse than the WE Thrower.
The WE Thrower at least has Pass and PA 2+, he can be useful for 1TTD attempts.
The DE Runner has PA 3+, no Pass, and Dump-Off, which has been nerfed by the fact that the blitzing player can see the outcome of the Dump-Off before deciding to actually hit the Runner.
The only value of DE Runner can be Leader caddy, but worse than the old DE Runner (due to change to passing mechanic).
That said, sooner or later, just for sake of BB science, I'll try to get PA 2+ on a DE Runner to see if he can be useful. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:10 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | The Dark Elf Runner is awful as well, I'd add him to the list. For sure he's worse than the WE Thrower.
The WE Thrower at least has Pass and PA 2+, he can be useful for 1TTD attempts.
The DE Runner has PA 3+, no Pass, and Dump-Off, which has been nerfed by the fact that the blitzing player can see the outcome of the Dump-Off before deciding to actually hit the Runner.
The only value of DE Runner can be Leader caddy, but worse than the old DE Runner (due to change to passing mechanic).
That said, sooner or later, just for sake of BB science, I'll try to get PA 2+ on a DE Runner to see if he can be useful. |
He now passes before the player is in base contact mind so the dump off is easier theoretically.
Tbh runner=another ma7 player. So I think he's fine at 80k. Plus easy leader.
Wood Elf Thrower is bizzzzzarely 95k. 15k more for PA 2 and Pass instead of dump off. Very odd!!! |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:17 |
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The BB2020 Runner's Dump-Off is 3+, with old rules it was a 2+ Quick Pass with -1 due to opponent's Tackle zone, so still 3+.
With this ruleset the blitzing player can declare the blitz, see where the ball ends, not bother to blitz the Runner at all and go to pick up the ball.
I say this because it happened to me. Moreover, with this ruleset there is Wildly Inaccurate risk, so there is even less control on where the ball could end.
I'd still take WE Thrower over DE Runner, even at 95k. WE Thrower is better out of the box for 1TTD attempts, and there is a huge difference between farming SPPs with PA 2+ and Pass and PA 3+ and no Pass. The WE Thrower skills up faster. Don't get me wrong, not saying WE Thrower's price is ok, just that he's better than DE Runner in terms of usefulness since game 1 (and the Thrower "self-farms" better).
About considering the DE Runner as an extra MA 7 player: then I'm better off with a Witch Elf with Dodge, Jump Up, Frenzy, for just 30 TV difference.
The DE Runner should have PA 2+. Currently DE are the Elven team most needing a pass option to make up for lack of speed. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Jan 27, 2023 - 13:25; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:24 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | The BB2020 Runner's Dump-Off is 3+, with old rules it was a Quick Pass with -1 due to opponent's Tackle zone, so still 3+.
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Yup this is what I was saying. I was just pointing out it isn't necessarily a nerf. It's not a buff overall either. It's just different.
In terms of the 1 ttd stuff. Yeah that's true. Though dark elves out the box aren't really a ott threat unless someone gifts their opponent a perfect set up for it.
I think DE runners are fine because you have 4 blitzers and WE all of which can keep up with your runner. In the context of their team it's just another ma7 player that makes them slightly better at their running game. Which is their big strength.
WE Thrower is a decent player too but soo over priced on a fully ma7+ team I rarely see the need outside 1 or 2 turn td. In general play he adds nothing but bloat really imo.
As for getting spp on either... meh it's simple to skill up both. |
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Last edited by Garion on Jan 27, 2023 - 13:27; edited 2 times in total |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:25 |
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Darkies have never needed a passer for running play.
Also before you got -2 to passing from 2 tacklezones because there is usually an assist. |
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Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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DoctorMidnight
Joined: Jul 07, 2022
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:27 |
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The Chaos Renegade thrower.
Compared to the"regular" human thrower:
- Safe Pair of Hands, instead of Sure Hand
- 3+ pass instead of 2+
- animosity
- and no worthy catcher to receive the ball
What a star, huh?
Of course, you save 5k compared to the regular human thrower. Best bargain of the year. |
Last edited by DoctorMidnight on Jan 27, 2023 - 13:29; edited 1 time in total |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:28 |
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I voted OWA blocker.
There is just nothing that is good on that player, nothing. |
_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:29 |
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| DoctorMidnight wrote: | The Chaos Renegade thrower.
Compared to "regular" human thrower:
- Safe Pair of Hands, instead of Sure Hand
- 3+ pass instead of 2+
- animosity
- and no worthy catcher to receive the ball
What a star, huh? |
haha funny stuff 
I went with Imperial Throwers for similar reasons, losing sure hands over normal thrower for running pass, which is useless really, and Pa3. Also the team is better off running with their blitzers most of the time...
But yeah animosity might tilt the renegade thrower towards being the worst
| MerryZ wrote: | I voted OWA blocker.
There is just nothing that is good on that player, nothing. |
Not useful for getting punched? haha |
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DoctorMidnight
Joined: Jul 07, 2022
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:35 |
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BTW: the HE thrower is imho one of the best throwers in the game - why do you propose him in your list, Garion? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:35 |
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| Garion wrote: |
In terms of the 1 ttd stuff. Yeah that's true. Though dark elves out the box aren't really a ott threat unless someone gifts their opponent a perfect set up for it. |
Yes, I was talking about a bit developed DE team.
| Garion wrote: | | I think DE runners are fine because you have 4 blitzers and WE all of which can keep up with your runner. In the context of their team it's just another ma7 player that makes them slightly better at their running game. Which is their big strength. |
If DE are not outnumbered, they for sure can play a running game. Problems arise when they are outnumbered (which, as you know, happens even at low TV with BB2020), and they don't have anymore a passing plan B. With old DE every single player could throw a 5+ Long Bomb. Now every DE player, DE Runner included, throws 6+ Long Bombs.
| Garion wrote: | | WE Thrower is a decent player too but soo over priced on a fully ma7+ team I rarely see the need outside 1 or 2 turn td. In general play he adds nothing but bloat really imo. |
I don't disagree, I just say that for 1TTD WE Thrower can be useful. If you want another use, vs Bomber: you keep the Thrower close to ball carrier, ready to pick up the ball and throw it as emergency plan. I did that as well in some games. As you said, he's a bit bloaty for the price, but I consider the "plan B" aspect as well.
| Garion wrote: |
As for getting spp on either... meh it's simple to skill up both. |
Without MVP nomination, it's not as easy. I tried to farm the DE Runner, even with multi rr 3+ passes fail more often than you can think. Try to play some games as DE and you will see it. I thought it would have been easy to develop a DE Runner, but it's not as easy as it may seem. About farming SPPs by scoring: I found myself often needing to hand off from Runner to another player to score, so the DE Runner doesn't get to score as often as you'd like. Also, even if you manage to develop him as pure ball carrier, he takes ages to get Blodge, and then he's still worse than a DE Blitzer or Witch Elf as ball carrier (Blitzer and Witch Elf both start with default Block or Dodge, so they "save" a skill slot). So he sucks as emergency thrower and as pure runner as well. |
Last edited by MattDakka on Jan 27, 2023 - 14:37; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:39 |
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| DoctorMidnight wrote: | | BTW: the HE thrower is imho one of the best throwers in the game - why do you propose him in your list, Garion? |
Because of his cost I'd rather have an 80k player and not have cloud burster personally. However I agree he is a decent player.
| MattDakka wrote: | | I thought it would have been easy to develop a DE Runner, but it's not as easy as it may seem. |
disagree, but that's fine  |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:45 |
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With that list I feel the Fun Hopper should be up there too (albeit nowhere near as bad as the Pact Thrower).
Literally infinitely more expensive than a linemen in terms of TV |
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DoctorMidnight
Joined: Jul 07, 2022
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:46 |
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I agree with MattDakka : the DE runner tends to die before getting leader+block+dodge. I don't even mention a hypothetic 2+ passing attribute....
I think boosting (i.e. scoring with) your DE blitzers and/or your LineElves is a better (and safer!) investment. |
Last edited by DoctorMidnight on Jan 27, 2023 - 13:49; edited 1 time in total |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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| Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 13:46 |
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Also sad to see the Pact Skaven up there now. Given the Linos lost S and P access the surely the straight choose of Ma against Av makes it a worthwhile option |
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