| Poll |
| Do you want black- or whitelists? |
| Yeah, that would be a great feature |
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28% |
[ 10 ] |
| Blacklists would be okay to sort out the blacksheeps, but i don't think we need whitelists |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Whitelists are okay with me, but i think blacklist are to destractive |
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25% |
[ 9 ] |
| Nah, what a stupid idea!! Admins please remove his account!!! |
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42% |
[ 15 ] |
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| Total Votes : 35 |
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Candlejack
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 14:29 |
 
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Heya guys,
i don't know if this topic has been discussed before, although i browsed the forum a bit about it, so i'm sorry if i missed it out 
I'm a bit tired about having trouble with some "bad sports", i mean guys that drop out of matches because they are losing against a lower rated team, are making fun of you if a player dies or insult you for making good dice rolls. And i noticed that there are some other coaches who have the same problems.
Almost everyone has his own "blacklist" on which he adds coaches he doesn't play anymore. I'm thinking about creating something like a "public blacklist", a centralized list on which a specific mantainer adds the names of coaches that showed some real bad sportsmanship. This entries must not be done on pure suspicion but only on proven evidence, e.g. log-files, spectator witnesses, etc...
On the other hand i think it would also be fine to have a "whitelist", thus a list where the mantainer can add coaches that showed some great sportsmanship.
These lists could help everyone, but especially newbies, to see what coaches they will have fun to play with and which ones they should stay away from.
This is just an idea that came up to me, so what do you guys think of it???
cu, Candlejack |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 14:39 |
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Generally I don't like the idea - just as I don't like witchhunts in the channel. Accidents happen, and I see the possibility of abusing those lists a lot more than they are beneficial. Who judges what was within the acceptable range? Are you sure you always see the whole story instead of just having the louder mouthed party present all the *proof*?
If you have problems with a player _take it to the admins_. Use the PM Admin button - it is there for a reason. If a coach shows "bad" behaviour repetiously Christer and co. do take action.
Edit: This only applies to a whitelist partly - which would offer less of a risk of abuse IMHO. (At least if people can vote those that are on out again).
-Mnemon |
Last edited by Mnemon on %b %16, %2003 - %14:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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Malthor
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 14:40 |
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Candlejack, I appreciate where you are coming from, but there are two big problems.
Firstly, who do you believe if the apparently 'bad' coach names YOU on the list in retaliation for you listing him? We don't need more tit for tat, claim and counter claim about who is a bad sport, cheat etc.
Secondly, there is nothing to stop the blacklisted coach from getting a new email account and causing misery under a new coach name.
I think we should all keep our own blacklists private, as a public list could be abused, and there is no easy way to prove a guy is a bad sport to others and merits being listed publicly, and the Admins do not want to have to deal with right of reply and reviewing listings etc.
My thoughts 
M |
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Chickenbrain
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 15:03 |
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Yepp, BlackLists have some major drawbacks. Especially if some coaches "work" together to get another coach out. So maybe the whole idea isn't that good at all, but there should be something done with those quiting players anyway. |
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Candlejack
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 15:09 |
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Heya again
Mnemon, Malthor i surely see your concerns about the abuse of a blacklist, i have those my self. Of course it is hard to "judge" who should really be added to such a blacklist. I'm stricly against a list where anybody can add someone by clicking on a "He's a bad guy"- button
It's kinda difficult to check if the accusations are justifiable. But if someone keeps quiting on matches he's going to lose, then something must be done. Of course the admins have to be informed about any quiters so they can take appropriate actions. But their possibilities are limited. They can give warnings or remove the account. But as u said Malthor, noone can make sure this coach doesn't get a new fumbbl nick
I know that there is no perfect wayto deal with quiters, insulters and cheaters  But maybe such lists could help, maybe not, that's exactly the point, why i posted this poll 
Those list can only function if we can figure out some methods how abuse can be prevented (i know that there is always a way to abuse something but maybe we can minimize the danger ).
Thx Mnemon and Malthor, for posting your concerns. I'm glad to have some critical voices on this topic. I hope we can gather more opinions about this.
So far, Candlejack |
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The Sanity Resort |
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Gitzbang
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 15:25 |
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I am rather in favour of some tool to judge other coaches behaviour before a game. Doesn't have to be a "Black- and White-List", but a way to simply comment other coaches behaviour and sportsmanship would be nice to have.
Of course, coaches would have to be able to defend, justify or generally comment this, but in general it is just a good thing to have. And - i maybe naive - i think it wouldn't only be used for criticism, because i know that i have had a couple of really funny and nice matches and it would just be nice to have a way of saying "Thanks" to some coaches and recommending them to others. |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 15:33 |
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I am sorry but a black list seems a very harsh idea, persacuting people is too much like a police state, and will only lead to the players to feel isolated and therefore make the problem worse. A white list is open to abuse as friends vote for each other. Maybe an enjoyment rating, where after each game you could leave a positive , negative or neutral vote, to how you enjoyed the way the game was played, and each coach gains a rating in that way, a bit like e-bay. Although this obviously could also be abused, it would be a less severe solution. |
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Xone
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 15:36 |
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How do you decide who goes on the lists?
Who decides who goes on the lists?
A says B cheats, B says A cheats.
Who goes on the list? (A, B or both)
What if someone gets disconnected does that mean he gets blacklisted?
This could easily get ugly, if people decide to take it to seriously!! |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 15:38 |
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I play cards on Yahoo! and the Euchre tables have a great feature where you can click on the player's stats and see wins / losses / Abandoned GAMES. Players with an abnormally high abandon% are usually not invited to sit down and play. I don't know if it can be done, but if we aren't going to use a blacklist, it sure would be helpfull to know that Coach "A" has abandoned 20% of his games before I waste my hour playing him. These bad sports may think twice about their actions if they have trouble finding opponents.
On a related topic - about "blacklist" coaches just creating a new email and account. Maybe as part of the initial sign up we could enter our IP address. If a coach is banned, then that IP address would be banned too, so if a coach wanted to get back into FUMBBL he would have to do it from another computer. I don't know if this is possible.
If everyone was a good sport and treated everybody fairly this wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, some people still put winning above honesty and fairness. Juts the bad part of human nature I guess. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 15:57 |
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As an alternative that uses an existing feature, how about a button that displays all the match reports written about a player?
This way, people can easily get access to information that's already 'public' and there's no new coding for Christer and Klipp. You can get a feel for how people play based upon the opinions of others. Maybe just a small tag on each coach's overview page. "View reports" or something. Just have it list the opponent's comments in a table similar to these forums. |
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Candlejack
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 16:00 |
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| Quote: |
How do you decide who goes on the lists?
Who decides who goes on the lists?
A says B cheats, B says A cheats.
Who goes on the list? (A, B or both)
|
That's exactly what i meant We need a to make sure that this feature will not be abused this way, if it really will be added.
| Quote: |
What if someone gets disconnected does that mean he gets blacklisted?
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Nah..., everyone can get disconnected if his isp kicks him or his machine crashes or the hard disk has an head crash. Noone should be blacklisted because he dropped once.. We must make sure that only notorious quitters are abot to be added.
Don't missunderstand me. I don't want a police state system like 1984!!
| Quote: |
On a related topic - about "blacklist" coaches just creating a new email and account. Maybe as part of the initial sign up we could enter our IP address. If a coach is banned, then that IP address would be banned too, so if a coach wanted to get back into FUMBBL he would have to do it from another computer. I don't know if this is possible.
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That won't work. Some people, like myself, have acces to the ip-range of whole subnet, and there is always the posssibilty of ip-spoofing (to fake your ip so it looks like another). And there are some people using the same computer, roomies e.g., so u can't ban them all if one "missbehaves".
This issue is not trivial, i know.. and i'm afraid that there is no way to solve it, so everybody is satisfied
Yours, Candlejack |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 17:40 |
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If you see these sorts of things happening, you need to contact an admin, as none of this sort of behavior is considered acceptable. A player is never allowed to simply drop a game, if somone does this, inform an admin so that we can look into the matter. Sometimes there is a legitimate reason for it, but otherwise we can, will, and have retired teams and permanently blocked coaches over this sort of thing. Also, unsportsmanlike behavior such as personal attacks and insults are also not tolerated, and players who make a habit of acting like that will not have an account here for long. In short, we have the rules we have to keep things fun for everyone, so please do let us know if people are not following those rules. |
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Artagas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 17:56 |
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I 100% share Mnemons opinion...
As far as whitelists I am sure some coaches would just put their best friends on it...
as far as blacklists I can imagine that most of the people would send someone on a blacklist for fouling their favourite player, which would be entirely stupid.
Also...having such lists would lead to endless and violent arguments, which we need the less.
i cant see the point in that. are you trying to save the effort of making individual judgments about coaches for people? why would that be good? should we the coaches of fumbbl all have a common opinion about everything? i hope not. |
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Cheesy
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 18:10 |
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Hey,
I do not think that the lists would be a good idea as lots of others here around.
But someone wrote above something of a voting like ebay.
I guess that could work or on the other hand the idea with "View reports" sounds good.
so have fun , play BloodBowl
Cheesy |
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psikobunny
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 16, 2003 - 19:38 |
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The concept stinks to be honest, you are correct in thinking most of us keep a list on our own, but there is no good way to keep one publicly that seems fair. There is nothing to say that I won't get along famously with a coch you grade as horrible or vice versa.
I dont mind the match report idea.
I also had the idea that it might be nice to expand the buddly list feature to have a Bad Egg category. Then I wouldn't have to hunt up the note page with the names of people I prefer not to play. This would keep the dirty laundry private, and it might be easy for the admins track how many people put a given coach on their bad list. |
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