FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Smess

Joined: Feb 13, 2004

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 16:19

Let me be the first to point out that a comparison between these two games might be a little far fetched, because BBowl remains a game where the luck factor plays an important role, and chess is a game where luck plays only a minor -if any- role.

Nevertheless, I have recently picked up chess again after about two-three years, and I noticed that I have suddenly gotten a lot better at it (not that I'm especially good at it, but still). I'm pretty sure that playing BBowl a lot has greatly improved my chess skills.
In particular, I now approach the game of chess in another way. Instead of making up attacking plans and try to force victory, I now focus on what the opponent is trying to do, and how I can counter him. I play from defence, make sure all my pieces are covered well, and then try to get slight advantages over my opponent.
Where I used to often get surprised by my opponent, I now have a firmer control over the game, and can especially way better predict the way the game is gonna go within the next moves.

So what do you guys think? Anyone else noticed an improvement in his chess skills after playing lots of BBowl? Can playing BBowl a lot make you better at chess? Can playing chess a lot make you better at BBowl? Would a grandmaster chess player also own in BBowl after he learned the game? (god I would LOVE to show Kasparov the ropes Very Happy

)

MiBasse

Joined: Dec 04, 2004

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 16:22

Alos note that tha pace in the two games are completely different.

It's quite natural that you'd be better at chess now - Bloodbowl has trained your ability to recognize patterns which is widely used in both chess and similar games (such as bloodbowl). After hundreds of games you've developed a more keen sence in that regard and since you play to win you've mainly focused at what can garner you a field advantage - much as in chess.

Last edited by MiBasse on %b %22, %2006 - %16:%Feb; edited 1 time in total

thesquig

Joined: Apr 11, 2004

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 16:23

I can see where you are coming from, both games are to do with recognising shapes and predicting your oppositions moves. I'd be alot better at chess if dice were involved Very Happy

This also brings me the question, what skills do you actually need in order to play bloodbowl well?

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Meech

Joined: Sep 15, 2005

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 16:27

Yeah, I have noticed that i am able to notice patterns (like Red FIsh said)

I just wish my Troll would stop eating my pawns...

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MiBasse

Joined: Dec 04, 2004

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 16:28

thesquig wrote:

I can see where you are coming from, both games are to do with recognising shapes and predicting your oppositions moves. I'd be alot better at chess if dice were involved Very Happy

This also brings me the question, what skills do you actually need in order to play bloodbowl well?

I'd say you need patience, a cool head, basic ability to calculate probabilities, a minor tactical mind, the ability to laugh at bad dice and luck Wink

Fabrizio

Joined: May 28, 2004

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 16:31

Blah. When I play chess I always find meself thinking about tackle zones and block dices...

Smess

Joined: Feb 13, 2004

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 16:36

RedFish wrote:

thesquig wrote:

I can see where you are coming from, both games are to do with recognising shapes and predicting your oppositions moves. I'd be alot better at chess if dice were involved Very Happy

This also brings me the question, what skills do you actually need in order to play bloodbowl well?

I'd say you need patience, a cool head, basic ability to calculate probabilities, a minor tactical mind, the ability to laugh at bad dice and luck Wink

Yeah I'd say patience and the ability to keep concentrated for a whole game works quite well.
Where most people get frustrated with the dice, and stop paying attention, start playing worse or just throw the game away, I just sit quitely thinking 'Yes you can laugh now, but from the moment you or the dice give me the slightest chance to get back into the game, I'll be all over your a$$!'

Optihut

Joined: Dec 16, 2004

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 17:06

The f*ckers forgot to include the dice in my chess game Sad

Oh and the minis look like crap Razz

Optihut

Joined: Dec 16, 2004

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 17:08

thesquig wrote:

This also brings me the question, what skills do you actually need in order to play bloodbowl well?

For me the game winning skill was to maintain a poker face and then yell "ILLEGAL PROCEDURE!" once my opponent finished moving his first player (the rule in our league was that you had time to fix a mistake like not advancing the turn marker, until you finished your first action).

maxlongstreet

Joined: Oct 18, 2005

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 17:10

I think chess and Blood Bowl have a lot in common. I haven't played much chess lately, but having played a lot of it in my life definitely helped me starting out in Blood Bowl.

IMO, Blood Bowl players aren't nearly as good at their game as chess players are at theirs. It goes beyond the fact that there are millions more chess players and it's been studied for centuries. The introdution of luck has the curious effect of making it harder psychologically for people to improve. If you get whipped at chess, you know that you just didn't get it done, and you have to look in the mirror and see what you did wrong. In Blood Bowl, you can always blame the dice. In most games, you get some crappy rolls in key situations, and you can always point to that. Of course, good players tend to overcome their bad rolls more, and put themselves in positions where they don't have to make as many rolls to win. But it's less clear, and thus harder to analyze your mistakes than in a pure skill game.

Korenn

Joined: Jan 01, 2005

Posted: Feb 22, 2006 - 21:18

I think a big similarity that helps is that you have a whole bunch of different pieces to choose your moves from and plan your strategies with. I say this because I'm a pretty fervent Go player and I find that being good at Go doesn't help your Chess game as much as being good at Bloodbowl does (not that I'm all that good at the latter).

I suppose playing bloodbowl trains your thinking to keep unique pieces in mind when planning... or something

fen

Joined: Sep 10, 2005

Posted: Feb 23, 2006 - 12:48

maxlongstreet wrote:

I think chess and Blood Bowl have a lot in common. I haven't played much chess lately, but having played a lot of it in my life definitely helped me starting out in Blood Bowl.

IMO, Blood Bowl players aren't nearly as good at their game as chess players are at theirs. It goes beyond the fact that there are millions more chess players and it's been studied for centuries. The introdution of luck has the curious effect of making it harder psychologically for people to improve. If you get whipped at chess, you know that you just didn't get it done, and you have to look in the mirror and see what you did wrong. In Blood Bowl, you can always blame the dice. In most games, you get some crappy rolls in key situations, and you can always point to that. Of course, good players tend to overcome their bad rolls more, and put themselves in positions where they don't have to make as many rolls to win. But it's less clear, and thus harder to analyze your mistakes than in a pure skill game.

Quoted for truth.

Also I'd like to add both games at their core are about territory. BB players exert Tackle Zones to defend theirs, Chess pieces have their movement and ability to automatically eliminate a opposing piece. Go also teaches a lot about territory.

Also chess has evolved to the point where, even though its still played for recreation, it's perfectly acceptable to use every resource at your disposal to win. BB isn't anything like that yet. (as a side note, M:TG has evolved a long way towards that purity of game. Something a lot of people dislike.)

And thanks for the game before Max, it's really good to lose. I've watched the replay a few times and I hope to tighten up my play from it.

Snappy_Dresser

Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Posted: Feb 23, 2006 - 13:01

Indeed there are similarities, but there are differences too.

For example, they REALLY frown on trash talk at chess tournaments (unless your name is Kasparov)

Buur

Joined: Apr 29, 2004

Posted: Feb 23, 2006 - 13:12

i also cant find the endzone on my chess board.... and where is the ball....
-Buur

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heinz

Joined: Mar 24, 2004

Posted: Feb 23, 2006 - 13:12

Leap on a Bishop would make it a true gamwinner...bye bye King!

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