| Poll |
| Are you concerned about Global Warming? |
| Yes |
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66% |
[ 32 ] |
| No |
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33% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 48 |
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Topper
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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 Posted:
Sep 21, 2006 - 19:55 |
 
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Well I won´t start a discussion about whether I misunderstood him.
I might have, and I might not have.
Doesn´t really matter in the long haul  |
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Nighteye
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2006 - 20:26 |
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| tadgoraucymru wrote: | El Ninio is a cyclical weather event arising from the pacific and is not linked to either global warming or the gulf stream despite what misinformed scaremongering journalists might say.
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There are however, indications that Global Dimming has an effect on El Nino. It is believe by some that the draughts in northern africa in the 70's and 80's was a direct effect of the airpollution in europe. |
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Astarael
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2006 - 20:28 |
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On the topic of global warming I say...
Drop it like it's hot. |
_________________
Oh my. |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2006 - 23:36 |
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| Meech wrote: | | Why is it that a single debate on here can't turn in to "AMERICA SCREWED THE WORLD"? |
I remember *one* poster claiming that close-to-explicitly. Even then, that poster was correct when stating the facts that the USans of the forum seem much less concerned about climate change than the Europeans.
I think you are a bit touchy in your interpretation - probably because of previous threads (and yes, I know I am too touchy myself on a many a topics).
I think the problem is the following:
We don't think that Mexico or Canada or Brasil screwed the world  .... |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2006 - 23:42 |
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Oh, Brazil is.... the whole Beef industry there is messing up the ecosystems something fierce! |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2006 - 23:53 |
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Isn't that more Argentina (at least what's you get here a lot, Argentinian Steaks)?
...
Brazil mixes ethanol from their sugar into the gasoline, having a better "fossile CO2" balance.
Anyway, with the chopping off the Amazon Rainforest, they are not on the "good guys" pages in my book. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2006 - 23:58 |
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The Chopping of the rainforests is primarily done by individual farmers, who need it for land, the abundance of rain leeches nutrients from the soil fairly quickly, so the farmers move further in, and cattle barons use the land for grazing. They get free clearing, and the farmers who can't afford their own land are given permission to work the land they clear. As a whole, the ecomonic issues are to blame, rather than individuals. Last time I looked (granted about five years ago), 95% of money was controlled by 3% of the population, noticeably above the world-wide average.....
No easy fixes. |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Wizard
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2006 - 01:23 |
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I still see nothing to support the "nah" sayers in hard evidence - or even just discuss the graphs and theories i've posted and make me understand why they are incorrect or meaningless.
An interesting note is that Polar Bears for the first time ever are being found drowned in the North Artic waters because chucks of ice the size of the brithis isles are melting away and they cant make it to the ice thats left because of the extreme distances.
Your all moving away from the intended topic, and that is wether or not we can figure out what to do about it.
Polar Bears: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1938132,00.html |
_________________
"As long as one person lives in darkness then it seems to be a responsibility to tell other people." |
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Daft
Joined: Aug 15, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2006 - 02:55 |
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I’m out for a day, and this topic goes nuts. The futility of this is that no one will change what they think one way or the other based on any arguments any of us give or studies we show. However, just to disprove the notion that everyone agrees with the environmentalist, I’ll offer some. Notice that most of the articles will be pro-environmentalism. I will simply point out the contradictions in their thought processes.
Let’s start here. A University of Colorado professor studying hurricanes comes out and says man is not the cause of global warming. This is why I claim environmentalism is a religion. Rather than studying his reasons, he is blasted by others for his blasphemy.
http://www.reporterherald.com/Top-Story.asp?ID=6894
Next we have a very pro environmentalism article claiming that due to our efforts, the ozone hole is shrinking. Boy, that makes me feel better. I guess if we just keep doing what we are doing, everything will be ok again.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34810
Oh, no, I guess not. Those foolish recyclers are messing it up. "Home composting generates greenhouse gas, academics warn" - "Home composting efforts may be doing more harm than good in the fight against global warming, writes James Cartledge."
http://www.letsrecycle.com/materials/composting/news.jsp?story=6054
Actually, according to the Guardian, people like Al Gorlioni are the real problem. Can some one get him to teleconference, or at least fly commercial. He and Bono’s private planes really add up.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1877080,00.html
Next, I wonder, are our ice caps melting, or are we headed for another ice age? Calling Mr. Python. It must be both. I still don’t understand how they are growing and shrinking at the same time.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1123785v1
But Antartica is not melting. How do we know this? Since 1979 we have had satellite coverage of the frozen continent and the UAH MSU data for the Southern Polar Region, shows a slight cooling trend of -0.01 °C/decade. Here is a graph of that data. [url]http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/UAHMSUSPol.htm
Folks, this is just some of the things I found going to one site that pulls articles like this together. Their best work is on the global warming issue. The thing is that it is even lengthier than this post, and you have data to sort through to get their points. They truly are doing their best to debunk what they call junk science. Their home page is junkscience.com.
I'll post once more on the subject. It will not be backed up with links like this. It will just be a short snip abut the futility of environmentalist efforts. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2006 - 03:03 |
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Daft
Joined: Aug 15, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2006 - 03:04 |
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As you can see from my previous posts, I think environmentalism is generally a waste of time, but I will not go into that again. For me, I'll let others have the last word. Rather, I just want to say that I highly doubt anyone in the US government will do much to further environmentalist concerns. They may pay it lip service but that is about all.
Keyoto is dead and will never pass the US congress. It simply would do damage to the US economy. Nothing similar to it will pass either. Memo to Europe, in general, America does not care what you want us to do about the environment. Shoot, most of us don't care what you want us to do on any issue.
In the realm of environmentalism, go speak to China, India, and Brazil. Maybe international pressure in this area can be as effective as UN preassure has been in the struggle to promote human rights.
I do not forsee anything really being done on this front for the next 20 years in this country. By that time we will have reached your fabled tipping point. Hold on everyone. We will soon see who was correct in this debate.
Well, I doubt that. A new line in the ice will simply be drawn. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2006 - 03:07 |
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The last word has to be cheese! |
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Zingr
Joined: Mar 14, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2006 - 03:42 |
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| Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | I like cheese? |
I prefer cheddar. |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2006 - 09:27 |
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Let's solve this the American way. Energy prices are rising at such speed that the American economy will implode in the near future, in favor of economies that rely less heavily on fossil fuels consumption.
Having ideological discussions about these issues makes very little sense. The lines are drawn anyway, and the Americans are free to try and drown my country (Holland) by raising sea levels.
Just sit back, and laugh your hiny off when the US goes bankrupt in 10 years. Dubya is doing a great job in speeding up the process, so it shouldn't be long. |
_________________
Proud owner of three completed Ranked grids, sadly lacking in having a life. |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2006 - 18:54 |
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About the polar bears:
I am slightly less scared about the drowning than about the fact that cannibalism has started to happen. The stronger male polar bears actually employ their seal-hunting strategies and tactics to kill and then devour female polar bears. |
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