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2011-03-02 16:30:45
20 votes, rating 3.9
20 votes, rating 3.9
Paper Rats
I suck when my rats have to play dwarfs (at the same time Im good when Ive to play rats with my dwarfs). It has been said that BB is a stone-scissors-paper game, and I ve realized that dwarfs are the perfect scissors for the papeRats.
Reasons:
-GRs are the core of the team, but when they face tackle they become a weak st2 player.
-Linerats are not ag4 players so dodging in order to avoid being blocked is a risky move.
-Skaven do not make many blocks, so when they face a high AV team the chances of sending out players significantly decreases, which is not a big problem if u keep ur GR alive but against dwarfs that is a difficult task.
-Dwarfs runners have sure hands, very often they are blodgers too and they walk protected by a guard-tackle cage. Then ur wrestle stripball GR is useless.
Definitely scoring against dwarfs is too easy although I ve lot of difficulties to stall until turn 8. Either because my balcarrier is in a danger position or because it would be better to put 3 players on the LOS than letting the dwarfs block ur full team. (i use to score at turn 6, giving the dwarfs the chance to score with a pass).
But when the sure hands dwarf ball carrier is in a cage i dont find the way to stop the little boys (good dwarfs coaches know that against rats they ve to cage in 1st turn). When the cage is formed I try to force the dwarfs to move towards one side of the field. Dwarfs play worse on the sides. Even if the dwarfs move to one side i cant stop them from scoring (if they are patient enough). Actually what im looking for with this side-strategy is to force my opponent to build a weak cage on the side of the field so i can have the chance of surfing his ballcarrier with some luck (2 negative block dices)... But if the dwarf coach is good enough he ll not make this mistake.
In my last blog about GR and skills I learned a lot of things about GR skills choices and skaven team management, thx to the comments of really good skaven coaches. Now Im asking about how to win dwarfs without loosing ur team. My questions are:
- How to stall until turn 8 on offense?
- How to play in order to avoid the dwarf's cage?
- How to avoid the dwarf TD once the cage is formed?
- How many GRs should u play on defense?
- What skills do rats need?
- I hate rat Ogre because of wild animal... But do u need rat ogre to play successfuly against dwarfs? How would u use it?
If u have games where u were successful with ur rats against
a good dwarf coach, i'd appreciate if u can give me the link since i learn a lot watching repalys.
Now is the time that dwarfs teams are afraid of dealing with rats...
Reasons:
-GRs are the core of the team, but when they face tackle they become a weak st2 player.
-Linerats are not ag4 players so dodging in order to avoid being blocked is a risky move.
-Skaven do not make many blocks, so when they face a high AV team the chances of sending out players significantly decreases, which is not a big problem if u keep ur GR alive but against dwarfs that is a difficult task.
-Dwarfs runners have sure hands, very often they are blodgers too and they walk protected by a guard-tackle cage. Then ur wrestle stripball GR is useless.
Definitely scoring against dwarfs is too easy although I ve lot of difficulties to stall until turn 8. Either because my balcarrier is in a danger position or because it would be better to put 3 players on the LOS than letting the dwarfs block ur full team. (i use to score at turn 6, giving the dwarfs the chance to score with a pass).
But when the sure hands dwarf ball carrier is in a cage i dont find the way to stop the little boys (good dwarfs coaches know that against rats they ve to cage in 1st turn). When the cage is formed I try to force the dwarfs to move towards one side of the field. Dwarfs play worse on the sides. Even if the dwarfs move to one side i cant stop them from scoring (if they are patient enough). Actually what im looking for with this side-strategy is to force my opponent to build a weak cage on the side of the field so i can have the chance of surfing his ballcarrier with some luck (2 negative block dices)... But if the dwarf coach is good enough he ll not make this mistake.
In my last blog about GR and skills I learned a lot of things about GR skills choices and skaven team management, thx to the comments of really good skaven coaches. Now Im asking about how to win dwarfs without loosing ur team. My questions are:
- How to stall until turn 8 on offense?
- How to play in order to avoid the dwarf's cage?
- How to avoid the dwarf TD once the cage is formed?
- How many GRs should u play on defense?
- What skills do rats need?
- I hate rat Ogre because of wild animal... But do u need rat ogre to play successfuly against dwarfs? How would u use it?
If u have games where u were successful with ur rats against
a good dwarf coach, i'd appreciate if u can give me the link since i learn a lot watching repalys.
Now is the time that dwarfs teams are afraid of dealing with rats...
Comments
Posted by maysrill on 2011-03-02 16:53:13
- How to stall until turn 8 on offense?
Don't. At least don't always try to. Rats run up the score when they win. Get Kick and try to get the ball before they cage.
- How to play in order to avoid the dwarf's cage?
Kick. Don't line up your gutters so far back they can't get past the LOS easily on a Blitz!
- How to avoid the dwarf TD once the cage is formed?
Pick off the corners. Man-mark the ball carrier if you can blitz a corner away, to force them to use their own blitz to clear it up. You might force them to try a risky move, or open a hole, trying to clear your guys out of the way.
- How many GRs should u play on defense?
Once they have more than just Block, they're two-way players, IMO. SS, Dauntless, etc. make them pretty useful
- What skills do rats need?
Against dwarfs your blitzers/SV matter. If you get them Claw/MB, you can hit as hard as the dwarfs do. Remember, they only get 1 blitz per turn, too. Some Guard help too, just don't get caught up brawling. DP is great. You'll play better shorthanded than the dwarfs, so a cas + call-off works in your favor.
- I hate rat Ogre because of wild animal... But do u need rat ogre to play successfuly against dwarfs? How would u use it?
With BT it can break a cage by itself. With Block it's a reliable formation-mover (great for picking off cage corners). Keep it away from the slayers and tie up some longbeards with it. They probably have 2 blitzer, 2 slayers and 1-2 runners on the pitch...and those don't have gutter-splattering Tackle by default.
Don't. At least don't always try to. Rats run up the score when they win. Get Kick and try to get the ball before they cage.
- How to play in order to avoid the dwarf's cage?
Kick. Don't line up your gutters so far back they can't get past the LOS easily on a Blitz!
- How to avoid the dwarf TD once the cage is formed?
Pick off the corners. Man-mark the ball carrier if you can blitz a corner away, to force them to use their own blitz to clear it up. You might force them to try a risky move, or open a hole, trying to clear your guys out of the way.
- How many GRs should u play on defense?
Once they have more than just Block, they're two-way players, IMO. SS, Dauntless, etc. make them pretty useful
- What skills do rats need?
Against dwarfs your blitzers/SV matter. If you get them Claw/MB, you can hit as hard as the dwarfs do. Remember, they only get 1 blitz per turn, too. Some Guard help too, just don't get caught up brawling. DP is great. You'll play better shorthanded than the dwarfs, so a cas + call-off works in your favor.
- I hate rat Ogre because of wild animal... But do u need rat ogre to play successfuly against dwarfs? How would u use it?
With BT it can break a cage by itself. With Block it's a reliable formation-mover (great for picking off cage corners). Keep it away from the slayers and tie up some longbeards with it. They probably have 2 blitzer, 2 slayers and 1-2 runners on the pitch...and those don't have gutter-splattering Tackle by default.
Posted by studmandudebro on 2011-03-02 16:56:43
claw mb po
Posted by DukeTyrion on 2011-03-02 17:13:07
Strange, I find the opposite.
The race with the best record against my Dwarves is Rats.
My Rats on the other hand do very well against Dwarves.
The race with the best record against my Dwarves is Rats.
My Rats on the other hand do very well against Dwarves.
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-02 17:15:54
I disagree actually, I think Rats are a Perfect paper to dwarves Rock.
Blitzers have Claw, MB, PO, which destorys dwarves. Gutter runners are more than twice the speed of most players on the pitch.
- first of all give kick to a lineman, it makes a huge difference against dwarves
- you need to stall till turn 8 stalling till turn 6 can be a good idea because then you can force dwarves to attempt a quick touch down first kick deep in thier half then they either have to make a pass to get the ball to some one that can score or give up on scorng and protect the ball to stop you scoring again,
If they pass there is a chance they will fail then you can pick up the loose ball and score again. 2-0 is usually an impossible lead for dwarves to over turn.
- Kick first
- Dont let there cage form spread their players out even if it leaves 1 rat linemen against 2 dwarf players. it will slow them down and mean there is more space for you GR to harrass the ball carrier.
If they do get the ball in a cage then you just deal with it the same way as you always would block and blitz the corners use your players to presseurise the ball carrier.
- Rat Ogres suck dont both
- 4GR on offence and defence always
- use an asymetircal defence unless they are going for a quick touch down.
- linemen need kick on one first, then wrestle/block fend thats it
- thrower - block, leader, accurate, dodge on double for me others will disagree
GR - one with wrestle strip ball and they others they way they always have been
Check out my team - http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=644346 it beat some dwarves 3-0
Blitzers have Claw, MB, PO, which destorys dwarves. Gutter runners are more than twice the speed of most players on the pitch.
- first of all give kick to a lineman, it makes a huge difference against dwarves
- you need to stall till turn 8 stalling till turn 6 can be a good idea because then you can force dwarves to attempt a quick touch down first kick deep in thier half then they either have to make a pass to get the ball to some one that can score or give up on scorng and protect the ball to stop you scoring again,
If they pass there is a chance they will fail then you can pick up the loose ball and score again. 2-0 is usually an impossible lead for dwarves to over turn.
- Kick first
- Dont let there cage form spread their players out even if it leaves 1 rat linemen against 2 dwarf players. it will slow them down and mean there is more space for you GR to harrass the ball carrier.
If they do get the ball in a cage then you just deal with it the same way as you always would block and blitz the corners use your players to presseurise the ball carrier.
- Rat Ogres suck dont both
- 4GR on offence and defence always
- use an asymetircal defence unless they are going for a quick touch down.
- linemen need kick on one first, then wrestle/block fend thats it
- thrower - block, leader, accurate, dodge on double for me others will disagree
GR - one with wrestle strip ball and they others they way they always have been
Check out my team - http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=644346 it beat some dwarves 3-0
Posted by Ullakkomorko on 2011-03-02 17:18:36
Kicking is obviously key as mentioned already. The first linerat to skill up with a normal skill should definitely get Kick. Kick deep and try to intercept the ball before it reaches the cage at midfield. Otherwise the dwarves might form their cage deeper in their own half in which case you have more yards to stop it.
If the cage is formed, I'd try to partition the dwarves if possible at all. Then just try and attack the cage by blitzing a corner and flooding the opening when you still have enough rats left to try it.
If you can stall even to turn 4 or 5, you still have enough time to score on defence yourself but the dwarves will be much more hard pressed to score themselves without some risky moves such as passing or handing off.
If the cage is formed, I'd try to partition the dwarves if possible at all. Then just try and attack the cage by blitzing a corner and flooding the opening when you still have enough rats left to try it.
If you can stall even to turn 4 or 5, you still have enough time to score on defence yourself but the dwarves will be much more hard pressed to score themselves without some risky moves such as passing or handing off.
Posted by Ullakkomorko on 2011-03-02 17:19:50
Fouling will be hard due to AV9 and Thick Skull. You need a linerat with DP and a good gang foul. But a gang foul will expose a lot of your players to getting tied up when the dwarves more in.
Posted by DukeTyrion on 2011-03-02 17:22:06
- How to stall until turn 8 on offense?
When you stall, you want to stall until about Turn 4. You want the Dwarves to 'think' they have enough time to score, which forces them into risky moves, then as soon as the ball is loose, you steal it and score. This also means when they are covering the ball they have 5 players who are not hitting your rats.
- How to play in order to avoid the dwarf's cage?
As maysrill has pointed out, Kick is a key skill for rats (which is always given to the first lineman I skill. Kick deep, get at the ball carriers before the cage forms, as once the cage is in place it's a different issue.
- How to avoid the dwarf TD once the cage is formed?
Wrestle on Linemen, and a Leap, VLL Gutter to get into the middle. Dwarves move slowly, get enough players n base contact at the right time and things can get quite disruptive. Just try not to leave all rats is base contact for 8 turns!
- How many GRs should u play on defense?
Three. It's worth keeping one Gutter back ready for your drive, so that you don;t have the scenario where 4 gutters are out. All gutters should be built as defensive players to some degree, as they already have enough in the locker to score once you get the ball back, especially against slow Dwarves.
- What skills do rats need?
Vermin need Guard, M Blow, Maybe Claw and Tackle. You need a Kick lineman, the rest do quite well with Wrestle (more Dwarves on the floor = more gaps for the rats). Gutter can have various builds, (Block, SS) (Block, VLL, Leap) (Block, Dauntless) (Wrestle, Strip Ball)/
- I hate rat Ogre because of wild animal... But do u need rat ogre to play successfuly against dwarfs? How would u use it?
Rat Ogres are an expensive luxury. If you can afford one after getting your roster up to 15 players, then by all means go for it. Otherwise, I would stick with ensuring you have enough reserves with coping with a lost player or two.
When you stall, you want to stall until about Turn 4. You want the Dwarves to 'think' they have enough time to score, which forces them into risky moves, then as soon as the ball is loose, you steal it and score. This also means when they are covering the ball they have 5 players who are not hitting your rats.
- How to play in order to avoid the dwarf's cage?
As maysrill has pointed out, Kick is a key skill for rats (which is always given to the first lineman I skill. Kick deep, get at the ball carriers before the cage forms, as once the cage is in place it's a different issue.
- How to avoid the dwarf TD once the cage is formed?
Wrestle on Linemen, and a Leap, VLL Gutter to get into the middle. Dwarves move slowly, get enough players n base contact at the right time and things can get quite disruptive. Just try not to leave all rats is base contact for 8 turns!
- How many GRs should u play on defense?
Three. It's worth keeping one Gutter back ready for your drive, so that you don;t have the scenario where 4 gutters are out. All gutters should be built as defensive players to some degree, as they already have enough in the locker to score once you get the ball back, especially against slow Dwarves.
- What skills do rats need?
Vermin need Guard, M Blow, Maybe Claw and Tackle. You need a Kick lineman, the rest do quite well with Wrestle (more Dwarves on the floor = more gaps for the rats). Gutter can have various builds, (Block, SS) (Block, VLL, Leap) (Block, Dauntless) (Wrestle, Strip Ball)/
- I hate rat Ogre because of wild animal... But do u need rat ogre to play successfuly against dwarfs? How would u use it?
Rat Ogres are an expensive luxury. If you can afford one after getting your roster up to 15 players, then by all means go for it. Otherwise, I would stick with ensuring you have enough reserves with coping with a lost player or two.
Posted by srjuanone on 2011-03-02 17:32:28
Thx for the comments and thx u for telling me where i can find game replays...
ANOTHER QUESTION: imagine you blitz one corner of the cage, but u just push the player, would you follow the block to man mark the ballcarrier or it is better to avoid the rat being blocked?? The problem with cage and man marking is that when dwarfs are patient (they dont try risky moves) u loose players before u can open a hole. Man marking use to finish with ur rats out of the field and the dwarfs scoring.
it is worthy to man-mark the rest of the corners once u have blocked one of them??
Claw MB PO: i still wonder why chaos and nurgle teams have free access to mutations and rats dont.
ANOTHER QUESTION: imagine you blitz one corner of the cage, but u just push the player, would you follow the block to man mark the ballcarrier or it is better to avoid the rat being blocked?? The problem with cage and man marking is that when dwarfs are patient (they dont try risky moves) u loose players before u can open a hole. Man marking use to finish with ur rats out of the field and the dwarfs scoring.
it is worthy to man-mark the rest of the corners once u have blocked one of them??
Claw MB PO: i still wonder why chaos and nurgle teams have free access to mutations and rats dont.
Posted by srjuanone on 2011-03-02 17:37:40
One more thing: if dwarfs are not the scissors for the paper rats, what is the most dangerous opponent for rats???
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-02 17:38:21
because rats would be OP with free mutations, chaos should only really allow chaos warriors to have them because they are OP at the moment at a high TV only though.
I cant really answer the question because that is so situational. The most important thing about rats vs dwarves is how you spread the dwarf players out by giving them targets, watch that team's replay vs dwarves, watch how i spread the dwarves out and make it hard for them to form a cage, often it is by sacraficing linemen but you should try and have 2 in reserves all the time for that I think they managed to form a cage about 3 times in that game but i managed to break it in one turn usually.
Also note how i use the gutter runners to mark all the players without tackle as well. except one or twice.
I cant really answer the question because that is so situational. The most important thing about rats vs dwarves is how you spread the dwarf players out by giving them targets, watch that team's replay vs dwarves, watch how i spread the dwarves out and make it hard for them to form a cage, often it is by sacraficing linemen but you should try and have 2 in reserves all the time for that I think they managed to form a cage about 3 times in that game but i managed to break it in one turn usually.
Also note how i use the gutter runners to mark all the players without tackle as well. except one or twice.
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-02 17:40:29
For me humans and orcs are their toughest opponent. Huamns - are fast enough to keep up have 4 very hard hitting players can change tactics at the drop of a hat come with surehands starter players to make life difficult for the strippers.
Orcs because well they are perfect.
Orcs because well they are perfect.
Posted by srjuanone on 2011-03-02 17:43:06
@Garion: therefore u think that the strategy of forcing dwarfs to move to one side it is not a good one, since it is better to spread them out...
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-02 17:52:51
I use the asymetrical set up against dwarves because it forces half f there team to deal with my LoS players and the other half try and exploit the gap i leave them. This makes spreading them out easier.
I agree forcing them down one side of the field is a good idea though because if you cant get the ball off them then at least you can completely stop them in their tracks. but spreading them out is definatly the most important thing because then they will have dwarves in areas of th field that they dont want them to be and it tales them a long time to regroup because of there low ma.
I agree forcing them down one side of the field is a good idea though because if you cant get the ball off them then at least you can completely stop them in their tracks. but spreading them out is definatly the most important thing because then they will have dwarves in areas of th field that they dont want them to be and it tales them a long time to regroup because of there low ma.
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-02 17:55:27
have you watched that replay yet, that set works wonders. I would be interested to see if duke tyrion uses it too because he is an exceptionally good rat coach. I will watch his replay someday too i think. Because the chances are we do things a bit different.
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-02 18:25:41
I have just watched one of duke T's replays vs dwarves and he sets up quite differently on defence to me, but his intentions are the same, his set up encourages slow bashy teams to attck him through the middle which leaves the wings exposed so he can get to the ball carrier really easily in his first trun and force the opponent to then back peddle and star blitzing backwards. so they can for there cage deep in their half.
Posted by fabik on 2011-03-03 09:29:51
Claw-MB-PO
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-03 13:22:28
Here is a replay of another game i just played finished now, i won 3-1 against the dwarves - http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3130975. Sadly it came at a price. I didnt have any reserves for this match so needed to win it in the first half. lost one of my blitzers as well :(
Posted by srjuanone on 2011-03-03 15:13:34
Thx for the replay, I ll watch it when I arrive home.
I ve already watched some of ur and DukeTyrion's games and they are good to learn about skaven strategy. Thx
I ve already watched some of ur and DukeTyrion's games and they are good to learn about skaven strategy. Thx
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-03 15:45:35
Its basically just go for the ball lol
Posted by Garion on 2011-03-03 15:58:58
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=641102
Check these out too
Check these out too
Posted by Reisender on 2011-03-04 23:18:19
- How to stall until turn 8 on offense?
As Tyrion said, you want to stall till turn 4, or (i prefer) turn 5 or even 6. IF you want to stall longer, you often need to retreat to your own half for some turns, maybe even ignoring LOS blocks in turn 1. This is sometimes risky vs dorfs (especially experienced dorf players) and even more when they have lots of stand firm or side step to block your way. It is always best to put 2 screens to protect the ball, so that you will always have some players free from tackle zones at beginning of your turn.
- How to play in order to avoid the dwarf's cage?
As said, kick skill and rush forward.
- How to avoid the dwarf TD once the cage is formed?
Put a double screen between the dorfs and the endzone each turn, 1 square away from the dorf cage. With that the dorfs will only be able to advance 1 square each turn - and they will put tackle zones on your players in front. Try to blitz 1 free and dodge the others out after setting up your new screen. The dwarf will try to counter this either by sending some "scouts" forward before you set up your screen, or by trying to send some guys towards the other side of the pitch to surround you. Usually you get your chance for the ball when his time runs out and he is forced to take some risk. If you have neough guys, leave one gutter behind his cage to go for the score. The dwarfs wont be able go back and gangfoul him, sinc ehtey will use pace and space.
- How many GRs should u play on defense?
as said, 3 is good.
Agree with tyrion. Block SS DT is especially nice vs dorfs to tie up theri nrunners when you go for the ball at the beginning.
- I hate rat Ogre because of wild animal... But do u need rat ogre to play successfuly against dwarfs? How would u use it?
150 is too expensive for the rat ogre. He does not help much vs dwarfs teams anyway. Only 1 av more, not good to tie up 2 block players, they are too tough to hurt them.
The scissors vs rat paper are Dark Elves and High Elves in my opinion. You cant bash them like woodies and you cant outrun them.
As Tyrion said, you want to stall till turn 4, or (i prefer) turn 5 or even 6. IF you want to stall longer, you often need to retreat to your own half for some turns, maybe even ignoring LOS blocks in turn 1. This is sometimes risky vs dorfs (especially experienced dorf players) and even more when they have lots of stand firm or side step to block your way. It is always best to put 2 screens to protect the ball, so that you will always have some players free from tackle zones at beginning of your turn.
- How to play in order to avoid the dwarf's cage?
As said, kick skill and rush forward.
- How to avoid the dwarf TD once the cage is formed?
Put a double screen between the dorfs and the endzone each turn, 1 square away from the dorf cage. With that the dorfs will only be able to advance 1 square each turn - and they will put tackle zones on your players in front. Try to blitz 1 free and dodge the others out after setting up your new screen. The dwarf will try to counter this either by sending some "scouts" forward before you set up your screen, or by trying to send some guys towards the other side of the pitch to surround you. Usually you get your chance for the ball when his time runs out and he is forced to take some risk. If you have neough guys, leave one gutter behind his cage to go for the score. The dwarfs wont be able go back and gangfoul him, sinc ehtey will use pace and space.
- How many GRs should u play on defense?
as said, 3 is good.
Agree with tyrion. Block SS DT is especially nice vs dorfs to tie up theri nrunners when you go for the ball at the beginning.
- I hate rat Ogre because of wild animal... But do u need rat ogre to play successfuly against dwarfs? How would u use it?
150 is too expensive for the rat ogre. He does not help much vs dwarfs teams anyway. Only 1 av more, not good to tie up 2 block players, they are too tough to hurt them.
The scissors vs rat paper are Dark Elves and High Elves in my opinion. You cant bash them like woodies and you cant outrun them.
Posted by jimjo on 2011-03-18 23:20:07
1.quite hard!
outbash them!
claw MB on a vermin and some good fouls shoud help!
otherwise it is a quite hard desigion to score early, when you still have the players....
or late as possible->
to score late as possible you should pin no MB players in the center and stop the other 2 come near your runner next 2 the TD line.
2.quite hard too!
pin them down when you like
break their offense in peaces
on late turns get thier ball carriers where they wanna giveit too (pin down shut their way, get them down)
3.quite imposible
stay in their way
hurt them. hit their faster players(<-because then they cand cage mutch further)
leap sb into it..;)
4.i play 2
mostly dautless ag sb ones
5.vermins guard and hit
linos ....get duno they die so fast:)
when something cool claw or guard or th some like horns..
runners all of it but not sure hands;)
throwers you dont need as long as they didnt have ag4
ogre see 6
6. ogres you dont need for no other race as long as it doesnt have block and pro;)
cd can pin him down
you cand move him 50%
no block is always huge risk!
wa makes it only worth
it raises your tv somwhere where it is not as competetive as it would be without
well some good nieuws!->more guard are welcome:) frenzey coud surf a bit and an ogre is quite mobile it it moves
nahh sack it
cheers
jim
outbash them!
claw MB on a vermin and some good fouls shoud help!
otherwise it is a quite hard desigion to score early, when you still have the players....
or late as possible->
to score late as possible you should pin no MB players in the center and stop the other 2 come near your runner next 2 the TD line.
2.quite hard too!
pin them down when you like
break their offense in peaces
on late turns get thier ball carriers where they wanna giveit too (pin down shut their way, get them down)
3.quite imposible
stay in their way
hurt them. hit their faster players(<-because then they cand cage mutch further)
leap sb into it..;)
4.i play 2
mostly dautless ag sb ones
5.vermins guard and hit
linos ....get duno they die so fast:)
when something cool claw or guard or th some like horns..
runners all of it but not sure hands;)
throwers you dont need as long as they didnt have ag4
ogre see 6
6. ogres you dont need for no other race as long as it doesnt have block and pro;)
cd can pin him down
you cand move him 50%
no block is always huge risk!
wa makes it only worth
it raises your tv somwhere where it is not as competetive as it would be without
well some good nieuws!->more guard are welcome:) frenzey coud surf a bit and an ogre is quite mobile it it moves
nahh sack it
cheers
jim
Posted by srjuanone on 2011-03-19 01:26:46
jimjo, thx for ur help :D