23 coaches online • Server time: 01:26
* * * Did you know? The brightest star is debog with 2031 SPPs.
Recent Forum Topics  All Star Bowl! | Secret League Americ... | test mode doesnt wor... |
2017-08-17 02:50:45
4 votes, rating 5.3
4 votes, rating 5.3
To Skill a Lizardman - 10 years later
When I wrote this article 10 years ago(!) it was for an entirely different rule set. It produced a lot of conversation, of course back then blogs didn't have comments so everyone was PMing me.
Things are different now! No more traits, some additional skills, and just recently the MVP change means your saurus will shoot up!
I was going to write a long entry on what I thought about skills, but to be honest things have changed on fumbbl. Increased "help" articles and participation in the forum means anything I write would be superfluous. So I am thinking instead to focus on skill planning.
Skill planning is something I really enjoy. I don't like developing my side re-actively. I get an idea for the game style I want to execute and I run with that. I decided my current lizardman side would be frenzy-heavy. I the the mass st4 allows for some fun with that. So this is how it looks. They are all normal skills, though I hope for two doubles within the first twelve to take dodge.
Saurus Progression
S1: Block, Frenzy, Mblow, Tackle, Sfirm, BreakT
S2: Block, Frenzy, Tackle, Sfirm, Mblow, BreakT
S3: Block, Tackle, Frenzy, Sfirm, BreakT, Juggernaut
S4: Block, Mblow, Tackle*, BreakT*, Shadowing*, Sfirm. *take DT if possible, drop shadow
S5: Block, Dodge, Guard, Mblow, Sfirm, Tackle
S6: Dodge, Block, Guard, Sfirm, Tackle, Mblow
Skills per order taken
1: block 5, dodge 1
2: frenzy 2, tackle 1, mighty blow 1, dodge 1, block 1
3: guard 2, tackle 2, frenzy 1, mighty blow 1
4: mighty blow 2, stand firm 3, break tackle 1
5: mighty blow 1, stand firm 2, break tackle 1, tackle 1, shadowing 1
6: break tackle 2, stand firm 1, mighty blow 1, juggernaut 1, tackle 1
This allows me to really see how I will be at random stages in development. Of course they won't skill evenly, but its useful to try to predict your needs before they arise. And yes, planning for 2nd and 3rd skills a lot more important than 6th, which rarely happens!
Specifically, the love of frenzy (and the SF that sort of follows) has meant that I am very short of Guard (only 2 as third skills... and with a lot of frenzy this could be a problem). Short of Break Tackle (zero for any saurus with 3 skills). There is also zero grab which is handy combined with frenzy. One might even argue I am short of MB.
And you can also see from the skills how each Saurus will play. 5&6 are the obvious LoS blockers. 4 is the catcher chaser. 1-3 are my experimental frenziers, which I'm not claiming is optimum, but how I want to see them develop.
Hopefully this gives a general idea how to skill a lizardmen. Block is obvious (not a huge fan of wrestle but if you want to take tackle and break tackle next, sure) and from there: guard, break tackle, tackle, mighty blow are all incredible. Stand firm, frenzy, juggernaut, Grab(meh) are all reasonable. Shadowing probably isn't great but I like having something to put pressure on fast sides charging down the end zones, even if it is just the threat of it. It's also underrated in blocking battles.
But the real point is to encourage thinking of your sides development. Is there a game style you want to focus on? No need to be inflexible of course, but if you have a sheet to plan from, you can hopefully anticipate your needs.
Things are different now! No more traits, some additional skills, and just recently the MVP change means your saurus will shoot up!
I was going to write a long entry on what I thought about skills, but to be honest things have changed on fumbbl. Increased "help" articles and participation in the forum means anything I write would be superfluous. So I am thinking instead to focus on skill planning.
Skill planning is something I really enjoy. I don't like developing my side re-actively. I get an idea for the game style I want to execute and I run with that. I decided my current lizardman side would be frenzy-heavy. I the the mass st4 allows for some fun with that. So this is how it looks. They are all normal skills, though I hope for two doubles within the first twelve to take dodge.
Saurus Progression
S1: Block, Frenzy, Mblow, Tackle, Sfirm, BreakT
S2: Block, Frenzy, Tackle, Sfirm, Mblow, BreakT
S3: Block, Tackle, Frenzy, Sfirm, BreakT, Juggernaut
S4: Block, Mblow, Tackle*, BreakT*, Shadowing*, Sfirm. *take DT if possible, drop shadow
S5: Block, Dodge, Guard, Mblow, Sfirm, Tackle
S6: Dodge, Block, Guard, Sfirm, Tackle, Mblow
Skills per order taken
1: block 5, dodge 1
2: frenzy 2, tackle 1, mighty blow 1, dodge 1, block 1
3: guard 2, tackle 2, frenzy 1, mighty blow 1
4: mighty blow 2, stand firm 3, break tackle 1
5: mighty blow 1, stand firm 2, break tackle 1, tackle 1, shadowing 1
6: break tackle 2, stand firm 1, mighty blow 1, juggernaut 1, tackle 1
This allows me to really see how I will be at random stages in development. Of course they won't skill evenly, but its useful to try to predict your needs before they arise. And yes, planning for 2nd and 3rd skills a lot more important than 6th, which rarely happens!
Specifically, the love of frenzy (and the SF that sort of follows) has meant that I am very short of Guard (only 2 as third skills... and with a lot of frenzy this could be a problem). Short of Break Tackle (zero for any saurus with 3 skills). There is also zero grab which is handy combined with frenzy. One might even argue I am short of MB.
And you can also see from the skills how each Saurus will play. 5&6 are the obvious LoS blockers. 4 is the catcher chaser. 1-3 are my experimental frenziers, which I'm not claiming is optimum, but how I want to see them develop.
Hopefully this gives a general idea how to skill a lizardmen. Block is obvious (not a huge fan of wrestle but if you want to take tackle and break tackle next, sure) and from there: guard, break tackle, tackle, mighty blow are all incredible. Stand firm, frenzy, juggernaut, Grab(meh) are all reasonable. Shadowing probably isn't great but I like having something to put pressure on fast sides charging down the end zones, even if it is just the threat of it. It's also underrated in blocking battles.
But the real point is to encourage thinking of your sides development. Is there a game style you want to focus on? No need to be inflexible of course, but if you have a sheet to plan from, you can hopefully anticipate your needs.
Comments
Posted by Dominik on 2017-08-17 02:56:53
You cannot combine Frenzy with Grab.
Posted by DrDiscoStu on 2017-08-17 03:16:45
Obviously I don't mean on the same Saurus.
If you have a lot of frenzy, having separate Saurus with Grab will set up a lot of unexpected (and hard to defend against) pushes.
If you have a lot of frenzy, having separate Saurus with Grab will set up a lot of unexpected (and hard to defend against) pushes.
Posted by DrPoods on 2017-08-17 08:15:54
Interesting read Stu.
I for one am on a mission to see if Garion's guide has the right sort of skill progressions for me.
I for one am on a mission to see if Garion's guide has the right sort of skill progressions for me.
Posted by Sp00keh on 2017-08-17 08:40:24
look at malmir's team, and take more break tackle. particularly with frenzy or dodge
Posted by DrDiscoStu on 2017-08-17 14:20:43
DrPoods - yes I think that Garion's guide is generally pretty good, which is why I didn't really need to cover it. I have a few issues but generally it is okay.
Sp00keh - Marion's side is interesting, with such an emhpasis on BT. My specific build which is so heavy on Frenzy doesn't really allow this. Also note that ranked is totally different to perpetual league (which is what I play) in the way you can pick and choose teams. For example - notice how he doesn't take a lot of MB? Most likely you would have hard getting games with 7 MB. haha.
Sp00keh - Marion's side is interesting, with such an emhpasis on BT. My specific build which is so heavy on Frenzy doesn't really allow this. Also note that ranked is totally different to perpetual league (which is what I play) in the way you can pick and choose teams. For example - notice how he doesn't take a lot of MB? Most likely you would have hard getting games with 7 MB. haha.
Posted by keggiemckill on 2017-08-17 16:53:33
I take Break Tackle sooner on my progression. 3 Saurii should have break Tackle, and 3 should have guard. Whether they are the same players or not doesn't matter. One break tackler need Tackle and MB. i don't like relying on Skinks for anything but Fouling and scoring
Posted by Sp00keh on 2017-08-17 22:54:29
i think the ideal saurus blitzer has too many normal skills he wants to take, even without doubles or stats
eg block/BT/tackle/MB/frenzy/dodge
is 6, and doesn't leave room for sidestep or standfirm to prevent getting surfed in retaliation, or guard which i want everywhere
they want so many normal skills but they die before you get 6x legend saurus, annoyingly :3
eg block/BT/tackle/MB/frenzy/dodge
is 6, and doesn't leave room for sidestep or standfirm to prevent getting surfed in retaliation, or guard which i want everywhere
they want so many normal skills but they die before you get 6x legend saurus, annoyingly :3
Posted by DrDiscoStu on 2017-08-18 02:01:13
Keggie - yes I agree. If you read my original article that is pretty much what I say. Blockers get guard, Blitzers get Break Tackle. I even made custom icons for them at one point. Though generally I would say 2BT, 2G, you make one the frenzier, and one is almost always in development. :)
sp00keh - very true. They all have so many that are critical, but that's the fun of team creation.
sp00keh - very true. They all have so many that are critical, but that's the fun of team creation.
Posted by Faulcon on 2017-08-18 10:10:24
Definitely a lot of skills they want. It is possible to build a lizard side to take on pretty much any other race but making one that can take on all races is a big challenge. I can see the build that DDS is proposing being excellent against paper and good against scissors but I think they'll struggle a lot against the rocks
Posted by DrDiscoStu on 2017-08-18 12:03:29
Personally I think it will handle scissors the best. Already stronger than most scissor sides, lots of frenzy and MB will chew them up. I think lack of BT will hamper the competitiveness of paper sides. It will be too easy for Saurus to be marked.
I agree that it will handle rock the worst. Faulcon what do you consider the necessary element to handle rock?
I agree that it will handle rock the worst. Faulcon what do you consider the necessary element to handle rock?
Posted by Faulcon on 2017-08-19 05:12:27
Paper doesn't like to mark very much, if they do then you take the free hits and with multiple frenzy you can really get them out of shape (both hurting and simply pushing them around).
For rocks, back to the basics. Block, guard, stand firm, mighty blow, break tackle in some order, and very limited frenzy because you'll get in big trouble with that against all the opposing guard and strength. Still nice to have one as a threat but definitely not 3. Break tackle if you want to go the elf route of avoiding hits with dodges, guard/sf if you want to get up in their face.
For rocks, back to the basics. Block, guard, stand firm, mighty blow, break tackle in some order, and very limited frenzy because you'll get in big trouble with that against all the opposing guard and strength. Still nice to have one as a threat but definitely not 3. Break tackle if you want to go the elf route of avoiding hits with dodges, guard/sf if you want to get up in their face.
Posted by DrDiscoStu on 2017-08-19 10:10:37
My Orcs guard-sf combo didn't seem to work very well against rock sides. I think I would go BT heavy and really try to elf it against the Rocks.
Posted by Faulcon on 2017-08-19 15:57:42
One of the things Orcs and Lizards have in common is an absence of claw, that makes rock matchups a lot harder.
Posted by the_Sage on 2017-08-25 14:52:50
I find that good positioning limits the need for mass break tackle, where blocking right can often let you free up a saurus to blitz with. Having 1 BT + T is crucial, and I wouldn't get > 2 frenzy. Mass guard is still my favorite thing in lizards, and if I wasn't raised in R, I'd probably load up on Mb more.