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2016-01-31 06:31:29
22 votes, rating 3
22 votes, rating 3
One Dozen Games: Dark Elves
This is the fourth entry of my series where I play 12 games with a team then give my impressions. This time our focus is dark elves.
Dark elves were the first AG 4 team that I tried. Their average speed is similar to humans, and they are almost as tough. The four blitzers are similar to humans at the start but develop very differently. The runner has been of marginal value, and I could not afford to buy a witch elf.
Arsenal of Elves
The results show I suck with dark elves. In my defense, this team has had some pretty terrible luck with injuries and winnings. Indeed, most of what I learned with this team was not on the field. Roster management mistakes were made. For previous discussion of these situations, see Retirements and Cash Flow
Record with dark elves after one dozen games: 3/0/9
Lessons Learned
Assessment
We will focus on roster development as I don't think my play on the field was typical based on the replays I have watched. This team is expensive with the linemen being particular pricey for the contribution they make. The blitzers are also expensive, but they can make some plays that justify the price. If/when I make another dark elf team, I think I will skip the runner because dump off is very difficult to use correctly. The high prices make it difficult to afford enough rerolls. When combined with ridiculously poor winnings, this led to a hole that the team never escaped. I should have retired the team after the nurgle match. Beyond that, I had two questionable decisions on early linemen retirements. Given the state of the treasury, these are both clear mistakes.
Formatting all the math I did has proven too difficult, but it would that my rolls overall with the team had been slightly below average. However, the outlier was the armor/injury rolls in the first half against my higher TV players. This meant that many games I was without my best players after only a few turns.
Development plans are to create a new team, eventually. Hopefully that one will get a witch elf.
Bottom line: Expensive and difficult to use.
Sal-utations
Note: There will be a future separate post were I try to dissect how to run a dark elf offense. This was my biggest error that I have not improved.
Dark elves were the first AG 4 team that I tried. Their average speed is similar to humans, and they are almost as tough. The four blitzers are similar to humans at the start but develop very differently. The runner has been of marginal value, and I could not afford to buy a witch elf.
Arsenal of Elves
| Opponent | Score | Casualties |
| Underworld | 2-3 | 2-3 |
| Human | 0-1 | 2-1 |
| Wood Elf | 1-0 | 1-1 |
| Nurgle | 0-1 | 1-4 |
| Undead | 1-0 | 0-1 |
| High Elf | 1-2 | 1-0 |
| Norse | 0-2 | 0-4 |
| Orc | 0-1 | 0-3 |
| Amazon | 1-2 | 2-2 |
| Human | 0-1 | 2-1 |
| Wood Elf | 4-1 | 1-4 |
| Human | 0-1 | 0-0 |
The results show I suck with dark elves. In my defense, this team has had some pretty terrible luck with injuries and winnings. Indeed, most of what I learned with this team was not on the field. Roster management mistakes were made. For previous discussion of these situations, see Retirements and Cash Flow
Record with dark elves after one dozen games: 3/0/9
Lessons Learned
- Elves are expensive, especially the linemen.
- Don't fire -MA LoS fodder.
- Blodge is not as good as people say. Pows into fouls will still happen fairly often.
- AG 4 does not (on its own) allow for a good passing game. Skills like pass and catch are required.
- The best dark elf offense might be a good steal the ball defense. See the 4-1 victory over wood elves.
- Dump off is unreliable even with AG 4.
Assessment
We will focus on roster development as I don't think my play on the field was typical based on the replays I have watched. This team is expensive with the linemen being particular pricey for the contribution they make. The blitzers are also expensive, but they can make some plays that justify the price. If/when I make another dark elf team, I think I will skip the runner because dump off is very difficult to use correctly. The high prices make it difficult to afford enough rerolls. When combined with ridiculously poor winnings, this led to a hole that the team never escaped. I should have retired the team after the nurgle match. Beyond that, I had two questionable decisions on early linemen retirements. Given the state of the treasury, these are both clear mistakes.
Formatting all the math I did has proven too difficult, but it would that my rolls overall with the team had been slightly below average. However, the outlier was the armor/injury rolls in the first half against my higher TV players. This meant that many games I was without my best players after only a few turns.
Development plans are to create a new team, eventually. Hopefully that one will get a witch elf.
Bottom line: Expensive and difficult to use.
Sal-utations
Note: There will be a future separate post were I try to dissect how to run a dark elf offense. This was my biggest error that I have not improved.
Comments
Posted by DrPoods on 2016-01-31 06:43:58
Expensive and difficult to use? Try Slann for that!
Posted by Nightbird on 2016-01-31 07:29:25
Keep at it Sal. This game & the teams available to play it are NOT always OR mostly EVER forgiving. In other words keep on keeping on man. I don't have to go out on a limb to say that in 5 years, if you have the drive to stay here, your views will be wildly different. AND when you come back to read these blogs you will know why.
Posted by bghandras on 2016-01-31 09:53:02
I think if you want to analyse yourself, and compare the similar runs with different races, then somehow account for coaching on the other side. (CR is not perfect, but could be used for that.) For example, if you win out with a race, and lose out with another, then it is not necessarily you sucking with 1 race. 12 games is a very small sample size, and is easily influenced by factors.
Posted by DeZigma on 2016-01-31 10:45:34
I like your approach and i guess you will learn a lot during this process. Never the less i have some questions:
A.) How do you prepare yourself for such a test/run of games?
B.) Do you watch games before running these games?
C.) Why do play just 12 games?
D.) Why only ranked? In diffrent divisions you will find differnt skill builds.
TV range is also factor.
A.) How do you prepare yourself for such a test/run of games?
B.) Do you watch games before running these games?
C.) Why do play just 12 games?
D.) Why only ranked? In diffrent divisions you will find differnt skill builds.
TV range is also factor.
Posted by SpecialOne on 2016-01-31 11:05:52
When I play against DE, the runner is one of the guys to get off the pitch. A DE team without a Witch is not a real DE team if you ask me. If you started with 4 Blitzers, then skip one and buy a Witch. The frenzy and dodge they have from the beginning is very helpful to the team as a whole.
It sounds like you tried to play DE as a passing team. IMO they are by far a running team. The ball on the runner, and if the trouble gets too big, he can try and dump off the ball. Make sure to have 1-2 guys behind him, so he can dump it off backwards, and then they can run with it, or change sides and so on.
It sounds like you tried to play DE as a passing team. IMO they are by far a running team. The ball on the runner, and if the trouble gets too big, he can try and dump off the ball. Make sure to have 1-2 guys behind him, so he can dump it off backwards, and then they can run with it, or change sides and so on.
Posted by SpecialOne on 2016-01-31 11:06:21
rated 4, as I feel like I miss some pointers as how you played the team.
Posted by PurpleChest on 2016-01-31 12:06:26
If you cant keep DE alive, then really dont try pro Elves or Wododes yet.
As to your conclusions:
Lessons Learned
Elves are expensive, especially the linemen.
-- Positionals are expensive, true. lineelves are cheap for their value
Don't fire -MA LoS fodder.
-- unless you do. Journeymen on the LoS is almost as good.
Blodge is not as good as people say. Pows into fouls will still happen fairly often.
-- Blodge is better than people say. but Pows will still happen.
AG 4 does not (on its own) allow for a good passing game. Skills like pass and catch are required.
-- Spot on, but DE are mostly used as a running team.
The best dark elf offense might be a good steal the ball defense. See the 4-1 victory over wood elves.
-- This is true of all races, and not especially so for DE.
Dump off is unreliable even with AG 4.
-- Yup.
As to your conclusions:
Lessons Learned
Elves are expensive, especially the linemen.
-- Positionals are expensive, true. lineelves are cheap for their value
Don't fire -MA LoS fodder.
-- unless you do. Journeymen on the LoS is almost as good.
Blodge is not as good as people say. Pows into fouls will still happen fairly often.
-- Blodge is better than people say. but Pows will still happen.
AG 4 does not (on its own) allow for a good passing game. Skills like pass and catch are required.
-- Spot on, but DE are mostly used as a running team.
The best dark elf offense might be a good steal the ball defense. See the 4-1 victory over wood elves.
-- This is true of all races, and not especially so for DE.
Dump off is unreliable even with AG 4.
-- Yup.
Posted by JellyBelly on 2016-01-31 12:07:50
I play high elves a lot and some things I have learned:
- AV8 is not as reliable as you might think. You will still lose players often (don't man-mark bashers unless the potential reward is high).
- Elven teams are tough to get off the ground, especially HE/DE that lack starting skills on many players. They really shine at higher TV.
- The elven offense is not as 'easy' as some people make out - it takes experience and a good game plan. Once you start losing players, it's easy to get surrounded and choked off. Everyone has their own method, but I find with HEs the best plan is to break through their line with 1/2 nuisance players that threaten to score, which forces them back and stretches out the defense. That, or the classic 2-turn touchdown/side switch are good as well. You should watch other elven coaches and see how they handle the offense.
But, they are fun to play and it's rewarding when you get it right. Plus, elves skill up very quickly and every player is a potential star - I have an AG5 lino on my team atm, who is a real nuisance! :)
- AV8 is not as reliable as you might think. You will still lose players often (don't man-mark bashers unless the potential reward is high).
- Elven teams are tough to get off the ground, especially HE/DE that lack starting skills on many players. They really shine at higher TV.
- The elven offense is not as 'easy' as some people make out - it takes experience and a good game plan. Once you start losing players, it's easy to get surrounded and choked off. Everyone has their own method, but I find with HEs the best plan is to break through their line with 1/2 nuisance players that threaten to score, which forces them back and stretches out the defense. That, or the classic 2-turn touchdown/side switch are good as well. You should watch other elven coaches and see how they handle the offense.
But, they are fun to play and it's rewarding when you get it right. Plus, elves skill up very quickly and every player is a potential star - I have an AG5 lino on my team atm, who is a real nuisance! :)
Posted by akaRenton on 2016-01-31 12:38:00
With regards to the passing game - No one plays the passing game unless it's a team theme. You soon learn it's much easier and safer to hand off and run, or just screen up and not even hand off.
I like the idea of this series of blogs, but 12 of anything is barely enough data to give a surface impression.
I like the idea of this series of blogs, but 12 of anything is barely enough data to give a surface impression.
Posted by tmoila on 2016-01-31 13:01:48
Lessons you should've learned instead:
-Dark Elves are the most easy mode elf team in the game
-Only dark elf positionals actually worth a damn are: Blitzer, Witch Elf
-Dump-Off is a bad skill because it requires your ballcarrier actually getting hit, and runner is av7, and runner has no core skills available, runner is thus quite bad
--Not as bad as assassin though
-Dark Elves are the most easy mode elf team in the game
-Only dark elf positionals actually worth a damn are: Blitzer, Witch Elf
-Dump-Off is a bad skill because it requires your ballcarrier actually getting hit, and runner is av7, and runner has no core skills available, runner is thus quite bad
--Not as bad as assassin though
Posted by Medon on 2016-01-31 13:32:10
Rated 6 for all the spot-on comments :-)
Posted by MattDakka on 2016-01-31 16:30:32
Not sure about Dark Elves being the most easy mode elf team.
At low TV maybe, but at high TV their armour advantage is nullified by clawpomb and they are the slowest of the 4 elf teams.
Wood Elves are probably the most easy mode elf team at any TV, because they have Wardancers, easy one turners and at high TV their AV 7 is not a difference against clawpomb while still they have their high movement to score easily even when outnumbered, unlike Dark Elves.
At low TV maybe, but at high TV their armour advantage is nullified by clawpomb and they are the slowest of the 4 elf teams.
Wood Elves are probably the most easy mode elf team at any TV, because they have Wardancers, easy one turners and at high TV their AV 7 is not a difference against clawpomb while still they have their high movement to score easily even when outnumbered, unlike Dark Elves.
Posted by Chainsaw on 2016-01-31 17:19:01
For dump off, you need:
- pass, at a minimum
- nerves of steel as well
- to keep a half decent outlet within quick pass range at all times
Otherwise it is a despearation skill.
- pass, at a minimum
- nerves of steel as well
- to keep a half decent outlet within quick pass range at all times
Otherwise it is a despearation skill.
Posted by MattDakka on 2016-01-31 19:26:53
In desperate situations I used Dump-Off to pass the ball to an empty square in a position hard to reach for my opponent.
Posted by SalTheChin on 2016-01-31 19:56:13
For those who are wondering why only a dozen, see the first entry https://fumbbl.com/p/blog&c=SalTheChin&id=18047 .
For those who are wondering about only ranked, it is mostly due to my schedule. However, I plan to enter Blackbox "soon" and am hoping that my NA timezone won't cause too many issues.
For everybody else, thanks for the advice. It will probably be while before I create another dark elf team.
For those who are wondering about only ranked, it is mostly due to my schedule. However, I plan to enter Blackbox "soon" and am hoping that my NA timezone won't cause too many issues.
For everybody else, thanks for the advice. It will probably be while before I create another dark elf team.
Posted by NerdBird on 2016-02-01 00:19:25
Like Tmoila said, Dark Elves really are easy mode as far as ELves go.
You should really look back to your previous blog about humans. You said block was a good skill. Here you have 4 block Ma7 ag 4 guys starting out. You also said they were really good at handling the ball; these guys can and should be better at it. They are however NOT good at passing. High Elves are really the best at passing and even then anything longer than a short pass is desperation. The linos are just fodder but the ability to pick up the ball 83% of the time and make a quick throw in those dire situations is really advantageous.
I really think your team build hindered you. In the first 10 games you should never replace linos. Just use the journeymen to fill those holes and buy useful players like replacement blitzers and the witch. 3 rerolls is spot on though. Dark ELves can outbash most races at low TV, including Dwarfs only because they should not get hit as much unless they start their turn with a snake or something which does happen.
AV7 linos without a skill should be fired. Journeymen are great on Elven teams...and if they gain a skill you can always hire them changing their number and name! :-)
I am an NA timezone player and at first it was hard getting started in the box with new teams. Once I got going though it was easy and the best way to find matches. If you have an IRC client I would suggest joining in #metabox and maybe someone can activate new teams to play you. Really, overall BOX is better for finding games especially for teams under 30 games!
As far as your 12 games, I would suggest going to 16 games at least since this is the acknowledged number of games for sprints!
You should really look back to your previous blog about humans. You said block was a good skill. Here you have 4 block Ma7 ag 4 guys starting out. You also said they were really good at handling the ball; these guys can and should be better at it. They are however NOT good at passing. High Elves are really the best at passing and even then anything longer than a short pass is desperation. The linos are just fodder but the ability to pick up the ball 83% of the time and make a quick throw in those dire situations is really advantageous.
I really think your team build hindered you. In the first 10 games you should never replace linos. Just use the journeymen to fill those holes and buy useful players like replacement blitzers and the witch. 3 rerolls is spot on though. Dark ELves can outbash most races at low TV, including Dwarfs only because they should not get hit as much unless they start their turn with a snake or something which does happen.
AV7 linos without a skill should be fired. Journeymen are great on Elven teams...and if they gain a skill you can always hire them changing their number and name! :-)
I am an NA timezone player and at first it was hard getting started in the box with new teams. Once I got going though it was easy and the best way to find matches. If you have an IRC client I would suggest joining in #metabox and maybe someone can activate new teams to play you. Really, overall BOX is better for finding games especially for teams under 30 games!
As far as your 12 games, I would suggest going to 16 games at least since this is the acknowledged number of games for sprints!