Posted by easilyamused on 2014-09-04 16:44:17

I think this would be better suited as a forum post in the tournament section. Will get more traffic and is easier to keep track of. Good idea.

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-09-04 16:49:00

Yeah good idea for the forum. Personally I see majors as the only point to playing in R or B - who cares if you picked or minmaxed to get an unbelievable record? no-one. Winning a major is a challenge and at least something of an achievement.

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-04 16:52:23

Thx easilyamused,

It should be important that Tournament administrators take the lead in this discussion through the most approppiate channel.

Their view of what it is viable or not it is crucial for this dabate to be really usefull and rewarding. And hopefully, many ideas come out from it and can be Implemented.

So, please administrators start and lead this debate.

Tournaments run well now, let's try to improve them to be even better.

o/

Posted by PainState on 2014-09-04 17:02:44

what are we debating exactly?

Posted by awambawamb on 2014-09-04 17:12:38

...so?

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-04 17:17:14

At this very moment nothing yet.

it would be great to get all parts involved in them to discuss any aspect that can be improved.

For example, just today some discussion arised in 2 different blogs around how tournaments are communicated/marketed. This is one aspect.

Other blogs in the past rised attention about other aspects. Let's bring all these in, and discuss throughoutly.

o/

Posted by Wreckage on 2014-09-04 17:39:31

I'm not sure there is a point in discussing 'nothing in particular'.

Posted by gamelsetlmatch on 2014-09-04 17:51:58

Spiraling Expenses play such a huge role in how, who and when teams play. Tournaments need to open up their pocket books, IMHO

The prize for winning a Torunament doesn't have to be be where the money is given out, maybe a small amount (10K) each round advanced, might be enough to entice more coaches to put their precious pixels on the line?

After all, it's not like it's real money and it just seems FUN!..

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-04 17:52:07

:D

please tournament admins accept the debate, so we can start discussing particular items, before everybody around this site thinks i am completly mad with this "nothing in particular yet" no-sense of mine.

Set the Agenda as you think most approppiate.

o/

Posted by gamelsetlmatch on 2014-09-04 17:53:56

Also...

https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=24196

Posted by DaCoach on 2014-09-04 17:57:16

Happy to discuss Majors - an important part of fumbbl.
Doing it because a few were unhappy they missed the qualifier, and making it up like tournament admins has to step up, I don't like.
They do a great job, but discussing how we increase the number of applicants for majors, making it an even bigger event, I am all for it.

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-04 17:59:21

@gamelsetlmatch

Thx mate for your entry.

The target of this blog it is not to discuss rules changes ("spiraling expenses"). It is granted that Official tournaments relate to [R] and [B] divisions and those are played under [b]CRP ruleset[/b].

About "prizes", let's discuss it!

Just today, 2 items have come up:

1. Marketing/communicating Tournaments
2. Tournament prizes

What else?

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-04 18:05:31

@DaCoach

+1

"discussing how we increase the number of applicants for majors, making it an even bigger event, I am all for it"

This is the point! thx!

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-04 18:18:54

and not only majors of course...

Posted by koadah on 2014-09-04 18:52:40

Am I missing something though? if 121 entered and there were only 128 places this does not sound like that great a tragedy.

No point increasing the number of applicants if they won't be allowed in anyway.

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-04 18:58:21

thx koadah.

New item.

"Entry quotas"

1. Marketing/Communicating Tournaments
2. Tournament Prizes
3. Entry quotas for Majors/Minors

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-04 19:23:26

Ok, time to get my feet wet!

***Can Majors and TOP minor tournaments be more friendly to all timezone coaches? Let's call it the "Timezone issue"

***Can Fluff be improved? How?


1. Marketing/Communicating Tournaments
2. Tournament Prizes
3. Entry quotas for Majors/Minors
4. Adressing Timezones
5. Fluff

Posted by WhatBall on 2014-09-04 19:36:13

Time Zone issues are my biggest tourney headache.

Posted by the_Sage on 2014-09-04 20:02:40

Sexier prizes for all minors and majors. (well, the Stunty Cup ones aren't half bad)

Time zone specific qualifiers (finding a tough spot for a final is fine, but for a R1 game is unnecessary)

Posted by Purplegoo on 2014-09-04 20:10:43

There are plenty of limitations to tournaments, but they only run the way they do because it's the easiest / best way to fit them on on the site. No one would argue they are perfect, but there is a reason they are how they are.

Feel free to suggest things, but PC and the team can only do so much.

Posted by gamelsetlmatch on 2014-09-04 20:25:19

I didn't propose a change in the rules, not sure you could have read that from my post.

I will, however, re-emphasis the need for MONEY to be handed out more readily in every level of tournaments!

Posted by pythrr on 2014-09-04 20:41:49

'dabate' is a funny word

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-04 20:55:54

@Purplegoo

I fully agree that there is a big gap within suggesting and implementing. A small team can just take so much. You bring up a important subject : Once changes are agreed, how to implement them.

This is a key point i was willing to rise: Searching out within FUMBBL for help

So, new topic in the discussion:

"Implementing Change: searching out within FUMMBLers for help"

1. Marketing/Communicating Tournaments
2. Tournament Prizes
3. Entry quotas for Majors/Minors
4. Adressing Timezones
5. Fluff
6. Implementing Change: resources (Fumbblers) needed

Posted by Purplegoo on 2014-09-04 21:17:22

Listen, I am not intending to pooh-pooh any effort for the community.

But before you go on a crusade, get the tournament staff on board. It will save a lot of heartache if you do that now rather than coming up with your (doubtless) super genius ideas and then being (politely) told they aren't interested.

That's all I'm saying.

Posted by PurpleChest on 2014-09-04 21:24:42

I see no harm in debate and/or discussion. In the past i have responded to just about every suggestion put forward, recruited just about every volunteer and designed and implemented new formats whenever there seemed to be a need.

Please do not mistake any of that for this being a democracy though.

Posted by Purplegoo on 2014-09-04 21:27:11

Good-o.

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-04 22:28:27

I do not have all the answers and i do not pretend to have them. Most of my ideas are not mine to be honest, i have just read them in this site.
And i don't have even ideas/proposals for some of the subjects arised.

I try to provoke a debate involving Fumbblers who care about tournaments (Admin and coaches). Get them together for brain storming to spot areas of improvement and set plans to implement realistics changes in those areas if possible (resources needed of course, if not, no change at all. Things are already good).

This blog is not about criticism but a constructive one and yes, admin should get involved. quoting myself in this very same blog:

"It should be important that Tournament administrators take the lead in this discussion through the most approppiate channel.
Their view of what it is viable or not it is crucial for this dabate to be really usefull and rewarding. And hopefully, many ideas come out from it and can be Implemented.
So, please administrators start and lead this debate"

Thx PurpleChest to accept the debate. Please if you don't mind, share you past experience in trying to solve these subjects. This past experience can be a very good starting point for this dabate. Let's find out if we can find another way to approach the problem and a realistic and achivable way to tackle it.
Of Course, add any other subject that it may have been overlooked to the discussion.

o/

Posted by cdassak on 2014-09-05 00:27:53

I think the tournament scene is great. A wide variety of Minors and Majors to satisfy every taste.
My suggestions for fine-tuning it:
The RRR to be a Box/Ranked Tourney, why shouldn't a Box rookie team be able to win one.
The XFL could also be more interesting if it was a Box/Ranked tourney

Posted by Verminardo on 2014-09-05 00:31:50

A feature I would like to see in the future that would, I think, increase the fun of speccing / commenting / picking / posting about Majors, would be to improve the way the tournaments are displayed. Currently you only see the team name, so if you don't know all of them by heart, you have to click on every team, and load the team page, for further information. I think it would be great to have the same amount of information displayed in the tournament page for each team, that is currently displayed in the list of active games.

Posted by xnoelx on 2014-09-05 00:40:35

Further to pythrr's point: with 29 comments from multiple coaches, surely this is a mass dabate? Ahem...

Anyway. The only real improvement to the tourney scene I would like to see (and one I've mentioned before) is a regular minor tourney for S. However, and again, as I've said previously, I don't think that should just be a format copied from the RRR/BBB/Scheduled SMACKs/Insta-SMACKs/XFL etc, it should be something unique to S.

I also don't think that we should rely on the tournament admins and/or WhatBall to come up with it. However, despite ruminating on it on and off for a while now, I haven't come up with any particularly good ideas yet. So if anyone else has a suggestion, please do speak up. Oh, and consider this me volunteering to do any admin required to run it, much as Brainsaw does for the RRRs, Cyrus-Havoc does for the XFLs, etc. I just need a shiny new format to run with...

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-05 01:33:58

Thx coaches for your insight,

I keep record of suggestions below:

* [B] and [R] Division Tournament Grid
* Site/Technical related support for team info display
* Stunty Tournaments

And, we had:

1. Marketing/Communicating Tournaments
2. Tournament Prizes
3. Entry quotas for Majors/Minors
4. Adressing Timezones
5. Fluff
6. Implementing Change: resources (Fumbblers) needed


Let's stop the agenda here. It is quite a lot.

Thx to all. I am not trying to cause any "heartbrake" ;)
I try to contribute. Like xnoelx. Thx mate.

And any help is needed, i think. Changes /improvements will happen only if we can find
fumbblers willing to contribute on its own way. If not, this debate is useless.
There is no debate, apart from thanks admin for your current job.


o/

Posted by pythrr on 2014-09-05 05:25:47

best whine blog eva.

Posted by Wreckage on 2014-09-05 11:23:27

seriously sonrise, why didn't you make this a thread instead of a blog?

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-05 13:11:48

Hi Wreckage,

Probably because a blog is just visible a maximum of 48 hours. If the outcome of this call would have been; Ok let's have this dabate, we could have moved to a thread and spam fumbble, ;)

If not, let's this die in a few hours.

As i said from day one, tournaments are running well. However, as many of us recognise the value and benefits that the tournament scene has for the site, this call tries to gather everybody who cares about tournaments in a Brain Storming session on how things could be made even better. And there is room for improvement.

And any changes would come from rising awarness between fumbblers that anybody can contribute. We could have suggested many things but nothing would have happened without people stepping forward and saying: ok, i can help you doing this particular thing i am good at for a few hours now and again; if this help count me in.

A pool of fumbblers willing to assist with their particular skill would have been a huge success. BB code specialists, scripts specialists, graphic design specialists, others willing to join current admin as full time admin to help in daily tasks and so on, many changes would have been possible.

Otherwise, tournaments are good as they are, no need for a debate and mobalising fumbblers. Admin are currently doing a very good job and tournaments run very well.

Posted by koadah on 2014-09-05 13:21:10

A blog that links to a forum post.

It's the only way to be sure. ;)

Unless you get a news item that is. :twisted:

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-05 13:51:35

Hi Koadah,

i am starting to really appreciate your subtle irony :twisted: XDDD

I won't link this to any post or anything. I want to participate in this debate. And i am willing to join and contribute the best i can to implement changes. But, i don't think i am the one who has to start and lead this thing.

This has to be enthusiastically embraced by all the people involved (using a business word: stakeholders) and lead by the decision makers to have any chance to be a constructive debate that results in real changes implemented.

cya mate

o/

Posted by Wreckage on 2014-09-05 17:13:46

Hi Sonrise,
I'm glad you are so exited about your own idea of nothing in particular and that you want to get so many people with huge skills on board with it.

I am sure nothing in particular will be the new hit in the next years and everyone will be on board and support it.
If we all work on it together we can make the tournament scene even a huger success with nothing in particular.
I think you are the right person to be in charge of nothing in particular.

thank you for the huge effort and contribution you made with this blog. There have been many ideas to improve the tournament scene over the years but you are the first to make nothing in particular a huge thing. This will be a leap forward in the tournament scene and we should aim to have enough teams enter to get rates of 75% getting denied on entry! :)

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-05 17:28:02

completely misunderstood ;(

It was honest. I have seen people doing things for nothing in return in this site, just for thx.

sorry

o/

Posted by Wreckage on 2014-09-05 17:38:22

Kinda lost track. Actually just wanted to say:

Just take the informations you have gathered so far and make a forum thread about those points. The forums may not have a great overview but this is worse.

Posted by awambawamb on 2014-09-06 14:53:00

Wreckage + 1.

make a forum beard.

Posted by sann0638 on 2014-09-06 17:04:26

I tend to think social media would get people excited about Fumbbl, and tournaments therein. But it's not going to happen, so that's fine.

Posted by Woodstock on 2014-09-09 17:42:58

Just because you didnt get access to the official FUMBBL facebook and twitter, doesnt mean you can create your own pages and get it going.

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-10 19:33:19

Well, now that this blog is deep down lost in FUMBBL and no one is gonna read it probably. I will start a series of articles where i will discuss the different topics rised in the agenda.

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-10 22:55:54

* Site/Technical related support for team info display
Topic rised by Verminardo

HE SAID "A feature I would like to see in the future that would, I think, increase the fun of speccing / commenting / picking / posting about Majors, would be to improve the way the tournaments are displayed. Currently you only see the team name, so if you don't know all of them by heart, you have to click on every team, and load the team page, for further information. I think it would be great to have the same amount of information displayed in the tournament page for each team, that is currently displayed in the list of active games."

MY VIEW: Not a priority. Changes in the site lay out implies IT work. As a general principle, any change that needs too much technical work by site admin should be ruled out of this discussion. Moreover, the site will realese a new client and other site changes in the near future.
There are plenty of resources in place in the current client to implement enough changes rather than focus on small features that would only be appreciatted by people like me or Verminado. Better focus on things that Fumbblers can work on without site technical assistance by using existing resources in place (Extended BB Code, image storage, hyperlinks to external sites to allow scripts and so on).

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-16 11:47:29

* [B] and [R] Division Tournament Grid
Topic rised by cdassak

HE SAID "I think the tournament scene is great. A wide variety of Minors and Majors to satisfy every taste.
My suggestions for fine-tuning it:
The RRR to be a Box/Ranked Tourney, why shouldn't a Box rookie team be able to win one.
The XFL could also be more interesting if it was a Box/Ranked tourney"

MY VIEW:"I quite agree with cdassak. Do not touch majors. Ranked minors are fine and no need for more tournies. However, Box is missing something. In a RRR blog people suggested last week, to open RRR to Box teams. RRR becoming a cross division tournament [R]-[B]. Brainsaw agreed with the arguments and promise to bring the proposal up to PC. We will see. A cross division XFL? why not?, though i am not 100% sure. A new format for box teams to have an equivalent to XFL?. Maybe."

Posted by sonrises on 2014-09-16 11:57:51

* Stunty Tournaments
Topic rised by cdassak

HE SAID "Anyway. The only real improvement to the tourney scene I would like to see (and one I've mentioned before) is a regular minor tourney for S. However, and again, as I've said previously, I don't think that should just be a format copied from the RRR/BBB/Scheduled SMACKs/Insta-SMACKs/XFL etc, it should be something unique to S"

MY VIEW:"I think Stunt deserves a blog of its own. When i started this blog, Stunty was not in my agenda. This was more a [R]-[B] thing to be honest.
I have never played Stunty. So, i don't have an informed opinion really.
At first go, i would say yes to a Stunty minor. It could help to promote the division. Stunty majors seem popular enough".