RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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 Posted:
May 11, 2025 - 19:10 |
 
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| koadah wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | I can't always time out an opponent, site rules forbid to do it in certain situations, as you know.
If I could always manual time an opponent out it would be ok. It would be worse than automatic time-out, but better than the current: "you can't time-out if the opponent writes brb" rule. |
You have already been told that that is not true.
https://discord.com/channels/254387387260469258/254387387260469258/1285920985085644810 |
Not him but me
Anyway as MattDakka does not use Discord for the convenience of the FUMBBL forum I re-quote the post
(with the permission of my cat  )
So now dear Dakka you can increase your beloved win rate by calling timeout mercilessly in Box because you risk nothing. Go!
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_________________
To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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| Posted:
May 11, 2025 - 19:20 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Thanks, I will add "bad sport" to my "About" section!
Much appreciated! 
I don't want examples. I want a clearly written official rule in the FUMBBL rules, not vague handwaving guidelines.
What is considerate and inconsiderate is arguable. Rules should not be arguable, should be clearly written black on white, without any possible ambiguity.
Rule example: "when the 4 minute-timer expires, you are allowed to click on the client's Time-Out button to enforce a time-out".
This is a clear rule. Simple to understand, without any ambiguity and not arguable. |
Your rule example is as you say completely clear and not arguably.
However I'd then say your opponent may be within their rights to leave the game and not necessarily face and automatic forfeit.
For example:
Coach: Hi [opponent], I've just seen an old lady fall on the road outside my window. I'm just going to run outside and check they are ok. I should only be a couple of minutes. I'll be back as soon as I know she's ok.
4 minutes time expires, [opponent] hits Time Out
1 minute later
Coach: Hey, I'm back. She's was ok.....oh
I assume on that basis it should be a rule of closing the game window any time you step away from the keyboard? That would make it very black and white |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 11, 2025 - 19:21 |
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If that's true, there are still 3 issues:
1) not selecting the skills (Fend, Stand Firm, etc.) when asked by the client;
2) no set up timer;
3) last, but not least: not being able to enforce time-out if a player is still moving after the 4 minutes. Currently, if a player started a move before the 4 minutes, they can still finish the move (or just not finish it, thus keeping the game stuck). This can be exploited to grief and should not be possible.
| C0ddlefish wrote: |
I assume on that basis it should be a rule of closing the game window any time you step away from the keyboard? That would make it very black and white |
I would suggest this: you can close the client (for example, to face a real life emergency), the timer stops, it resumes when you rejoin the game. This way you can finish it later, because the timer has been stopped.
Max 3 reconnections to a game allowed, with a global 10 minute-timer to reconnect (the global timer could be a bit longer, but it's important to limit the reconnections, otherwise the system is prone to griefing).
If the disconnection is due to the site (for example, server restart) it doesn't count as disconnection for purpose of calculating the number of disconnections. |
Last edited by MattDakka on May 11, 2025; edited 2 times in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 11, 2025 - 19:59 |
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| RDaneel wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | I can't always time out an opponent, site rules forbid to do it in certain situations, as you know.
If I could always manual time an opponent out it would be ok. It would be worse than automatic time-out, but better than the current: "you can't time-out if the opponent writes brb" rule. |
You have already been told that that is not true.
https://discord.com/channels/254387387260469258/254387387260469258/1285920985085644810 |
Not him but me
Anyway as MattDakka does not use Discord for the convenience of the FUMBBL forum I re-quote the post
(with the permission of my cat )
So now dear Dakka you can increase your beloved win rate by calling timeout mercilessly in Box because you risk nothing. Go!
|
You, as in everyone.
Though of course what was said in that post may have been overruled later.
So, sure. Without an explicit site rule... |
_________________
NO Seasons! 2016 Progression, KO Tournaments, --- All Star Bowl - Always recruiting!
Open/Gamefinder play |
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smeborg
Joined: Jan 04, 2019
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| Posted:
May 11, 2025 - 20:50 |
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Perhaps the obsession with 4 minute turns (which I believe derives simply from the GW BB rulebook) might be off the mark?
I suggest a system like that of chess clocks might be better. Anything you do (including setting up, deciding whether or not to use and Inducement, Side Stepping during the opponent's turn, etc.) is on your time. Thus you can "save" time for that difficult turn when you want to take more than 4 minutes. And you get back a little (in the form of accumulated time) when your turn ends with a first Action fail (e.g. a quad Skulls).
Such a system would have the advantage of being better at ensuring a match is concluded within a defined time. And (like chess), matches with different time limits would be possible. Including "rapid" versions (potentially leading to new online tourney formats). |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 11, 2025 - 21:12 |
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| smeborg wrote: | | Perhaps the obsession with 4 minute turns (which I believe derives simply from the GW BB rulebook) might be off the mark? |
In my very first post I wrote:
"+1 to automatic time-out (either at 4 minutes or with a time bank)" so even a Chess clock system could be used. The important thing is having an automatic time control. |
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nThatch
Joined: Jan 13, 2004
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| Posted:
May 12, 2025 - 03:59 |
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It is fine as it is.
Players with few games get a warning on the first crossing.
A solution is the "GL and HF, btw I tiemout on 4 min mark". |
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Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
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| Posted:
May 12, 2025 - 09:33 |
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| nThatch wrote: | It is fine as it is.
Players with few games get a warning on the first crossing.
A solution is the "GL and HF, btw I tiemout on 4 min mark". |
it's that simple. And Matt, you argue two things and mix them up:
1) "there should be a clear rule". As laid out, there is a clear rule: you can time out unless an opponent indicates someting intervenes IRL. That is very clear.
2) "I don't like the very clear rule that exists. I want another one and it should state that time outs are always ok even if things happen IRL". As you can tell from the responses here, most people do not think your proposed change would be a good one. They have other values than you do. Good luck convincing them but it won't be on the merits of your case. I certainly do not think your idea would make fumbbl a better place. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 12, 2025 - 10:10 |
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Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
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| Posted:
May 12, 2025 - 10:51 |
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| koadah wrote: | | Joost wrote: |
1) "there should be a clear rule". As laid out, there is a clear rule: you can time out unless an opponent indicates someting intervenes IRL. That is very clear. |
I don't think that it is a "clear rule". Can you point to it? |
I stand corrected. I thought the above was part of the rules but it isn't. I don't know where I have read about this so maybe I just made it up that Christer had clarified the time out rules. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 12, 2025 - 10:58 |
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| Joost wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | Joost wrote: |
1) "there should be a clear rule". As laid out, there is a clear rule: you can time out unless an opponent indicates someting intervenes IRL. That is very clear. |
I don't think that it is a "clear rule". Can you point to it? |
I stand corrected. I thought the above was part of the rules but it isn't. I don't know where I have read about this so maybe I just made it up that Christer had clarified the time out rules. |
Ha. So did I.
I maybe shoulda just kept quiet. 
Christer did clarify. I linked earlier. Who knows if he re-clarified. But he didn't update the rules. |
_________________
NO Seasons! 2016 Progression, KO Tournaments, --- All Star Bowl - Always recruiting!
Open/Gamefinder play |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 12, 2025 - 11:34 |
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| Joost wrote: |
1) "there should be a clear rule". As laid out, there is a clear rule: you can time out unless an opponent indicates someting intervenes IRL. That is very clear. |
Christer has explained it clearly:
"The "social contract" is to give them time. From a literal rule perspective, you are allowed to click the timeout button if it's there. They could report you, but it wouldn't lead to any consequences."
And also (which is a thing I thought as well), he wrote:
"There is no reliable way for you to know if someone left the keyboard or if they're just sitting there thinking".
These explanations are clear and not arguable.
There is still the possibility to get the game stuck by not finishing a player's move, by not setting the players up and by not selecting the skills, but at least the "brb" in the chat is not a valid reason to prevent the time-out.
So, finally we got an official ruling about the time-out button by Christer himself!
Not black on white, but white on black. 
About the Chess clock: it's not possible to have it implemented at the moment. Let's be content with the 4-minute timer.
Thanks koadah and RDaneel for linking and posting the image! Knowledge is power! |
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