Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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Jun 04, 2025 - 23:39 |
 
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| Chingis wrote: | | Baron-Greenback wrote: | | Yes zons are a bit over powered, in part the linewomen though the blockers are the big problem to face. Giving them AG4+ would make a noticeable difference. |
What if the Blockers and Blitzers didn't have Dodge, so that (especially in out-of-the-box games) an opponent always has a few people in the Amazon team they can try and hit that's not a 1/6?
Maybe the Blitzers could have Wrestle (pairs nicely with Jump Up) and the Blockers Block instead of Dodge? The Blitzers can still get Dodge as a first skill and have the combo, and it'll cost the Blockers a secondary to do so. So slightly nerfed Blockers and Blitzers go sideways to become worse ball-carriers but more dedicated blitzers instead? |
Trading starting dodge for starting block and wrestle on the positionals I think would actually make 'zons stronger, not weaker. |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Jun 05, 2025 - 00:06 |
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Would it make it more interesting though? Isn't the frustrating thing when the only thing you can do is fish for 1/6 dice rolls? With some variety, you get tactical choices rather than just pulling the lever on a slot machine. |
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daniel7582
Joined: Feb 01, 2020
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Jun 05, 2025 - 00:29 |
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| Drrek wrote: | | Trading starting dodge for starting block and wrestle on the positionals I think would actually make 'zons stronger, not weaker. |
Going to have to disagree with this, especially for the blocker. Maybe you could make the argument for 0spp teams, but definitely not the case as soon as you add one skill. As it stands right now, I'd say the amazon blocker is far and away the most value efficient player in blood bowl. Just compare them to the other 4ST players.
Ulfwereners: +1AG, 5+ passing instead of -, two secondary skills, one of which is dodge.only 5k more expensive
Chosen Blockers: trade MA for an armor, two secondary skills, one of which is dodge. only 10k more.
If they at least had to pay the 40k for dodge (whether in the way of player cost or choosing the skill), that would go a very long way |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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Jun 05, 2025 - 03:31 |
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I was referring to 0 spp teams, yes. If it lost dodge and continued to not have agility access, then yes it would be a worse piece for a developed team.
But the problem with 'zons isn't when they are developed. And I do believe giving them block pieces (even if those pieces lost dodge) could very well make them stronger at rookie spp. |
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DrPoods
Joined: Nov 14, 2013
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Jun 05, 2025 - 06:48 |
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Redrafting is so annoying. What was wrong with those legendary players? It added fun and flavour. Also, the cap is too low IMO. Punishes teams like Chaos etc that need skills to become competitive.
Renegades losing S access on marauders.
Other things annoy me too like the skills system but those ones really get me. |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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Jun 05, 2025 - 09:38 |
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Things I don't like, are mostly game theory stuff.
Like, there's terrible skills, there so that picking random skills is riskier (and a small part to let you feel smart by avoiding them when choosing).
But the better thing to do there is having fairly good skills all through and just increasing the price of the random ones, closer to chosen skills.
Like, if it was 15 and 20, for TV costs, and only saved a couple spp, rather than half, it'd be fine if all the skills were decent.
Chosen doubles are a bit too expensive on most players, but in extreme cases it's right. And random dubs are a bit cheap if they work out. They could've forced random secondary skills, no choosing them allowed, if the skill sets were decent. Could've been really good there, more variety without adding perfect dubs to developed players. Make 'em 30 TV and away you go.
Like, that's a bit picky, but you know, Block/Pro treemen are amazing for just 80k extra, and an Elf lino with Grab, probably doesn't exist any more, why random S when you can choose blodge.
Redraft seems fine, but they could've set the agents fees based on number of skills, rather than number of seasons. +20k for 1-skill, +40k for 2-skill, +60k for 3-skill, +80k for 4-skill, that sort of thing. Sort of, who cares if people keep linemen with no skills.
You could even stack up charge on double stat ups and such. +MA/+MA can be +50k over the two skills to keep another season. Charge extra for Guard, Block, or other boring skills like Leader and Pro.
And like, team changes and star changes have been a crapshoot. Some of them are great, but it's easier to notice the ones that are bad for the game. Like, Underworld were good in BB16 with the gutter runner, adding snotlings and 13-men on field for a real team was just a totally weird choice. I guess they had snotlings to sell or something? I dunno.
Bomber Dribblesnot was somewhat popular at 60k and 4+ bombs and half of them coming back at you.
Bomber Dribblesnot got lots more popular at 50k and 3+ bombs and none ever coming back at you, and lots more teams able to take him.
I get they wanted to sell minis, but man, same with Morg, he's always been popular, being much cheaper and also much better was a lot to add to him at once, on top of adding more rosters that ran at a TV where you could take Morg. And then other stars are still confusing, useless stacks of skills that do nothing and no one uses them or buys them and I don't get that at all.
And yeah, Zons losing 4 block to get 2 strong, and giving them a fast player, like, the linos are too good for their price, adding massively discounted S4 players, I get it, they want the girl team to be good, so it's good, but yeah, it's still not that fun to play against. You either crush them or they win, and the new injury table is kinda harsh on AV 8+.
The vamp changes are mostly really good, except they gave them +1 to gaze, and they really, really, really did not need that.
Necro and Undead are back to being, you know, block mummies and stat wolves and obviously they rock. Where Lizards went from being a devastating team when developed to being garbage with worse stars and worse development and BT not functioning, which was huge for them.
And yeah, Nurgs being king of everything in late LRB6 to being nothing is, well, no one liked CPOMB spam, but still, they nerfed claw/MB, which, like, that was a lot of the teams.
I dunno, change is hard, kids. It's still a good game, of course, there's just a fair chunk of it doesn't really work at the moment, and more probably could've been a better experience to use. |
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Solaris
Joined: May 29, 2023
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Jun 05, 2025 - 10:46 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Vampires are superior to Humans both in strength and agility, according to fluff, hence ST 4 AG 2+.
That statline is right, I would just nerf Hypnotic Gaze, Pro (4+) and the Runners with MA 7 Sprint. |
that sounds like a fitting adjustment |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 05, 2025 - 11:41 |
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| Solaris wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | Vampires are superior to Humans both in strength and agility, according to fluff, hence ST 4 AG 2+.
That statline is right, I would just nerf Hypnotic Gaze, Pro (4+) and the Runners with MA 7 Sprint. |
that sounds like a fitting adjustment |
yep, agree. Not that fussed about Pro going back to 4+. But Hypno needs to return to it's previous version or at the very least -1 from now. And Ma8 is definitely too much, it makes the team the best OTT team in the game once skilled up... Ma7 Sprint is a good shout. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 05, 2025 - 12:12 |
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Just a little comment: I'm not totally sure about Pro reverted to 4+.
That's an idea.
An alternative could be leaving Pro at 3+ but a failed Bloodlust without biting a Thrall knocks down the Vampire with AV roll (maybe with +1 bonus to AV, i.e. as if AV were 1 point higher than the statline AV).
Now that Vampires are less developed due to Re-Draft, the failed Bloodlust without biting = Knocked Down seemed harsher to me, hence the Pro 4+ idea.
It's hard to be totally sure about what to change, but I think that some nerfs here and there should be the right way.
About nerfing Hypnotic Gaze: skills should be cancelled only on a 6, otherwise only Tackle Zone is cancelled.
If Gaze were still too good, then -1 to the Gaze roll.
I like, on principle, the new Vampire roster with positionals and with Bloodlust not removing them from the pitch, but they should be toned down. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 05, 2025 - 12:24 |
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yeah I think the -1 to hypno and a Ma nerf is all that's needed. That OTT ability is currently too strong now because of auto getting +Ma on the runners, and their general pitch coverage is too great in a team where you can easily remove tackle zones. Giving them sprint is probably a reasonable idea. As they will still need 2xMa, and sprint is pretty situational and comes with risk. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 05, 2025 - 12:27 |
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And +MA requires more SPPs than Sprint.
I mean, it takes more SPPs to build a MA 9 Sprint Runner if you start with a MA 7 Sprint Runner than if you start with a MA 8 Runner. |
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Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
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Jun 05, 2025 - 12:36 |
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What if Bloodlust worked like Animal Savagery if a thrall is next to you (so not optional, you have to empty a neighbouring thrall before you act), but with the proviso that if no thrall is next to you, you automatically change your activation type to a move action (and need to eat a thrall with that move to avoid a turnover)? So if you wanted to do anything except move (including hypno-gaze!) you'd have an incentive to ensure a thrall is next to you before you try to act, with the extra logistics that involves. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 05, 2025 - 12:41 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | And +MA requires more SPPs than Sprint.
I mean, it takes more SPPs to build a MA 9 Sprint Runner if you start with a MA 7 Sprint Runner than if you start with a MA 8 Runner. |
yep |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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Jun 05, 2025 - 12:49 |
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| DrPoods wrote: | | Redrafting is so annoying. What was wrong with those legendary players? |
For me, on the other hand, it is annoying to have to play against teams that can develop legend players with +MA + MA Blodge Sure Hands +AG ad vitam aeternam .
Go look at the forums on this site from years ago where they talked about ‘what I don't like about BB2016’ you will find many where ‘stat freak’ was something that annoyed. For certain teams then it is devastating: take the Vampires even take away their redraft it becomes a joke if they can play with a couple of LEGEND vamps with no any fees.
But even an orc team with such a blitzer is a joke to play (some pseudo legends coaches who think they are very good have used this trick for years and glorified their 78% average box win rate where now after redraft float on a more modest 65% WR and have stopped being show-offs, instead using their time to complain about the rules and open forums complaints as a group psychotherapy)
Redraft is one of the best innovations in this game for me.
Then if one wants to play unlimited skills TV 2200 there are special leagues. But the majority of Blood Bowl tournaments (NAF and the like) do not use this format.
And there must be a reason |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jun 05, 2025 - 13:00 |
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Fact is, with Re-Draft there are still freaks around and strong tier 1 teams thrive, while tier 2 teams are rarely played outside Trophy.
It's not a good way to keep freaks in check. It's better than nothing, but it's not the best way.
The best way is capping the stats/skills and making them more expensive and harder to roll on the table. |
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